Is there an rcbs ammomaster users support group?

[Larry in wyoming]

This thing actually makes me yearn for a Lee pro 1000.
The priming mechanism is highly susceptible to dirt and the powder drop is very messy. I swear I can load 9mm ammo on a single stage faster than on this "progressive " what with all the stoppages and double checks. No wonder the guy just gave it to me and got out of the reloading game.
Some day soon I'm getting a dillon.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Im confused Larry. The RCBS is a single stage. Vs the Lee 1000 progressive.

 

[Larry in wyoming]

Once upon a time RCBS dallied with progressive presses. I'm not sure if this was the only one or even if they still do.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Ahh ok thanks. When i looked up ammomaster i found this. https://www.rcbs.com/presses/single-stage/ammomaster--2-single-stage-press/16-88703.html If and when i go progressive im going to go with a Hornady.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Those were supposed to be horrible when they came out. I think jmorris said that RCBS was sending out parts for that thing faster than they could make them because of all the problems.
RCBS also made a progressive that attached to the top of a Rockchucker Supreme and the single stage operated the ram on the progressive.
I don't know how reliable they were.
RCBS Piggyback — Bathrobe Demo - Bing video
RCBS was never very strong in their abilities to make a progressive press. And they were really expensive, more than Dillon or Hornady.

 

[Yamifrk]

If you want a progressive press I would recommend a Dillon, just my 2 pennies.
I have nothing against RCBS I have one on the other side of my bench. Works awesome for single stage loading.

 

[Tilos]

Once upon a time RCBS dallied with progressive presses. View attachment 1154762I'm not sure if this was the only one or even if they still do.

Yea, it's a 5 station "piggyback" like progressive, I have one, as well as 2 other piggybacks.

I have ditched the powder measures and nightmare powder drop mechanical junk and replaced it with the Lee powder thru expander die and Lee deluxe auto disk powder measure.
That change alone made the "piggyback" presses reliable and productive, as no case no powder drop.
I've been using them for years, but I do deprime and wet tumble prior to reloading, to eliminate primer smooge from tying up the press(es).
What I bought for $100!

Ammomaster/piggyback/Lee PM/LNL bullet feeder in use:

.

 

[Jonny2guns]

Go Dillon, much more user friendly.
Just say'n

 

[Larry in wyoming]

Yea, it's a 5 station "piggyback" like progressive, I have one, as well as 3 other piggybacks.

I have ditched the powder measures and nightmare powder drop mechanical junk and replaced it with the Lee powder thru expander die and Lee deluxe auto disk powder measure.
That change alone made the "piggyback" presses reliable and productive, as no case no powder drop.
I've been using them for years, but I do deprime and wet tumble, prior to reloading, to eliminate primer smooge from tying up the press(es).
What I bought for $100!
View attachment 1154770
Ammomaster/piggyback/Lee PM/LNL bullet feeder in use:
View attachment 1154772

Any luck getting the priming mechanism to work reliably?

 

[Tilos]

Any luck getting the priming mechanism to work reliably?

I do de-prime and wet tumble before loading, so there's that.
And more importantly I chamfer any crimped primer pockets I find when de-priming.
The extra effort needed to de-prime a crimped primer identifies it and I chamfer it then and there.

A crimped primer on a Progressive can be sucked back into the primer pocket and cause all kinds of problems if it indexes with the case, over the new primer/priming pin.
Besides the de-priming crud, that alone causes most priming problems on ALL progresses, regardless of color!

The small plastic block that the priming tube fits into would "unclip" sometimes so I just wired it on (red square):

I don't believe that is a problem on your press though, it was rectified by RCBS back in the piggyback era.
The alignment of the primer slide and the primer pin is critical too and there is an alignment pin used for this adjustment but I just eye-ball it.

I size/pre-prime some cases and put them aside before starting to load and if I feel the need for more pressure when priming- I STOP and INVESTIGATE and plug in a pre-primed case if needed.
Read my sig line...

So, you could put the powder drop from the pro1000 onto this press, but as you can see, I needed 2 Lee powder drop risers to clear the index rod on the RCBS press.
I also used a spring to return/reset the powder drop, so no chain etc.
jmo,
.
.

 

[Bwana John]

RCBS as a company has been very good to me over the years, and I have tried to buy and use their equipment.
That being said… next time I will buy a Dillon instead of an Ammomaster for progressive pistol loading.

the only other issues I have had with RCBS is tumbler motors failing, and the RCBS mounted primer pocket swaggers, the Dillon superswage is superior.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

RCBS as a company has been very good to me over the years, and I have tried to buy and use their equipment.

I agree, they are a standup company and a credit to the reloading industry. I just never understood why they had so much trouble designing their progressive presses to run as reliably as Hornady's and Dillon's. They should have been able to.

 

[jmorris]

I just never understood why they had so much trouble designing their progressive presses to run as reliably as Hornady's and Dillon's.

IMO, they get something together and release it to the public before they iron out the bugs. So the buyers immediately have issues, the press(s) get a bad name and people avoid them. I think that’s been the case for every press they have come out with. The Pro 2000 was pretty solid but it required the use of the APS strips.

For a contrast look at the Frankfort X-10 press, it was “coming soon” years ago. A few Beta testers had them first, to throw in the human factor and iron out the details. All of that R&D doesn’t come for free as they near doubled the price of the press since it’s first announcement.

So now the question is, would you like a less expensive press or one with the bugs worked out? It’s the classic and on going Lee vs Dillon discussion.

 

[Larry in wyoming]

IMO, they get something together and release it to the public before they iron out the bugs. So the buyers immediately have issues, the press(s) get a bad name and people avoid them. I think that’s been the case for every press they have come out with. The Pro 2000 was pretty solid but it required the use of the APS strips.

For a contrast look at the Frankfort X-10 press, it was “coming soon” years ago. A few Beta testers had them first, to throw in the human factor and iron out the details. All of that R&D doesn’t come for free as they near doubled the price of the press since it’s first announcement.

So now the question is, would you like a less expensive press or one with the bugs worked out? It’s the classic and on going Lee vs Dillon discussion.

Is it a case of lack of innovation I wonder?
Just rushing to jump on the band wagon?
@Tilos I appreciate all the help. I'll try and put it to good use here soon.

 

[jmorris]

Is it a case of lack of innovation I wonder?
Just rushing to jump on the band wagon?

I have a friend, that was a coworker when we built racecars together, we found that we also shared other interests and would share other projects with each other. He always starts by fiddling with any and everything he can to see what will fall apart or he can break.

At first I thought he was just trying to piss me off but over time I learned he was just making sure that someone who had no idea what they were doing and refused to read any instructions, couldn’t mess things up.

In the design world we refer to them as the people whom, “…could break an anvil with a rubber mallet.” They are out there and in fairly large numbers.

Once one gains a working knowledge of a machine, they can generally get along with them well. As a designer you know the weaknesses and exactly how you intend for the machine to work. You can not count on the end users to have the same knowledge.

To everyone else, it’s going to be less intuitive. This is why it shouldn’t come as any shock that people that do actually read manuals tend to have better luck but that, critical or key, information must also be conveyed. Makes it obvious why people with a Dillon 750 might find salvation in their 74 page manual, while people might still suffer with the Loadmaster and it’s 10 page manual that doesn’t contain as much critical information. That’s before we even begin to discuss actual design.

 

[dredd]

I have a friend, that was a coworker when we built racecars together, we found that we also shared other interests and would share other projects with each other. He always starts by fiddling with any and everything he can to see what will fall apart or he can break.


In the design world we refer to them as the people whom, “…could break an anvil with a rubber mallet.” They are out there and in fairly large numbers.

I am surrounded by these people 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

I am constantly trying to "out dumb them".

I had a coworker that was asked what he does.
His answer: "We try to make Parts Less Wronger".

 

[Tilos]

Is it a case of lack of innovation I wonder?
Just rushing to jump on the band wagon?
@Tilos I appreciate all the help. I'll try and put it to good use here soon.

If you can be more specific on exactly what the priming problems are, we may be able to offer more advise.
Some have said de-priming 1st before progressive reloading, defeats the progressive process, not me though.

Dillon has a spring loaded de-priming pin that snaps when the primer clears the primer pocket to hopefully release the primer from the pin.
If you don't want to de-prime 1st, I have reprofiled de-priming pins to eliminate 90% of primers sticking on the pin when pushed out of a crimped pocket.

Chuck the primer pin in a drill and stone the point at an angle about the same as a pencil point/cone.
Stone it until the end/point of the pin is about 1/2 of it's original diameter.
Then stone a ball shape on the point.
Doing this has eliminated 90% of stuck primers (for me) when de-priming crimped primers, give it a try.
good luck,
.

 

[Larry in wyoming]

My problem is primers not feeding and seating correctly.

 

[sfl_gunner]

OP anything that makes you yearn for a Lee Pro 1000. Should not be on your loading bench. I haven't encountered anything worse than a Lee Pro 1000 in the reloading field.

 

[Tall]

I guess I am the outlier. I bought a Lee 1000 (the Pro came later) around 1985 in 38 Special / 357 Magnum. No issues, still have it. I later bought a Lee 1000 in 45 Colt Caliber. Later still I bought the Pro 1000 in 45 ACP. No issues with any of them.

 

[Larry in wyoming]

I had a 1000 back in the. 90s don't know if it was a pro or not. Only problem was losing timing now and again. It was a group buy and I moved so I left it behind.

 

[Tilos]

My problem is primers not feeding and seating correctly.

I add a short piece of brass rod on top of the primers in the tube, once it's on the press.
The added weight helps the primers drop into the primer slide.
If the primers are hanging up coming out of the tube/into the slide, check that the slide is centered under the tube.
If not, this is were you adjust that, loosen the set screw 1st, yours maybe white:

The bottom red box is where you adjust to center the slide over the priming pin when the ram is at the bottom.
The upper red box is were you adjust the slide under the drop tube block:
Note the wire wrapped around the drop tube block.

That empty primer tray is holding the shell plate/ram above the shot pin allowing you to hand rotate/index the shell plate and remove any problem cases.

.

 

[GW Staar]

IMO, they get something together and release it to the public before they iron out the bugs. So the buyers immediately have issues, the press(s) get a bad name and people avoid them. I think that’s been the case for every press they have come out with. The Pro 2000 was pretty solid but it required the use of the APS strips.

For a contrast look at the Frankfort X-10 press, it was “coming soon” years ago. A few Beta testers had them first, to throw in the human factor and iron out the details. All of that R&D doesn’t come for free as they near doubled the price of the press since it’s first announcement.

So now the question is, would you like a less expensive press or one with the bugs worked out? It’s the classic and on going Lee vs Dillon discussion.

I never was interested in AmmoMasters, but Jmorris is correct about the Pro 2000 being solid, but once RCBS lost its independence to conglomerates who don't understand anything but the selling of simple commodities, they didn't have a chance with developing progressives. Lack of perfection when pushed out the door that fast is about impossible, and requires trials and resulting redesign, as jmorris correctly pointed out concerning the X-10 presses. But RCBS's task masters would have none of that. So they pushed them out the door the cheap way, failed, with the premature prototypes, and had no choice but to move on.

I had to improve and develop on my own....both the Pro 2000 and the ProChucker 7. And I helped a few others. But I don't recommend the ProChuckers to those who expect a proven product from a new prototype.....out of the box. Potential is there, and they can run with Dillons, but not without some additional development first. And the worst part? They had no desire or budget to develop good collators or feeders either. And that killed them. I had to make my own case and bullet collators and improve their PC7's bullet feeder which couldn't stay tight enough to stay together. The fix for that was simple....cost about a dollar. So was it worth it? Only to me.....I bought the 7 station press because I wanted a winter project.....and it was fun for me, and now I have a very well working 7 station press.

I loved and still love APS priming. And I've used them all..... tubes, trays, and strips, and I find strips to be as close to trouble free and certainly the safest method to insert explosive primers.....but no matter....they are history, thanks to RCBS's short sighted task masters. I hope Hornady or Lee or Dillon for that matter never sell out to the conglomerates....not good for them...not good for customers. I wish Franklin Arsenal the best with their new and now pricey X-10.

This last winter's project was Lee's 6000.....even more fun (really!). Potential's there....don't like their primer system though....too bad Lee didn't buy RCBS....then they might have really developed APS!

 

[Kaldor]

I never was interested in AmmoMasters, but Jmorris is correct about the Pro 2000 being solid, but once RCBS lost its independence to conglomerates who don't understand anything but the selling of simple commodities, they didn't have a chance with developing progressives. Lack of perfection when pushed out the door that fast is about impossible, and requires trials and resulting redesign, as jmorris correctly pointed out concerning the X-10 presses. But RCBS's task masters would have none of that. So they pushed them out the door the cheap way, failed, with the premature prototypes, and had no choice but to move on.

I had to improve and develop on my own....both the Pro 2000 and the ProChucker 7. And I helped a few others. But I don't recommend the ProChuckers to those who expect a proven product from a new prototype.....out of the box. Potential is there, and they can run with Dillons, but not without some additional development first. And the worst part? They had no desire or budget to develop good collators or feeders either. And that killed them. I had to make my own case and bullet collators and improve their PC7's bullet feeder which couldn't stay tight enough to stay together. The fix for that was simple....cost about a dollar. So was it worth it? Only to me.....I bought the 7 station press because I wanted a winter project.....and it was fun for me, and now I have a very well working 7 station press.

I loved and still love APS priming. And I've used them all..... tubes, trays, and strips, and I find strips to be as close to trouble free and certainly the safest method to insert explosive primers.....but no matter....they are history, thanks to RCBS's short sighted task masters. I hope Hornady or Lee or Dillon for that matter never sell out to the conglomerates....not good for them...not good for customers. I wish Franklin Arsenal the best with their new and now pricey X-10.

This last winter's project was Lee's 6000.....even more fun (really!). Potential's there....don't like their primer system though....too bad Lee didn't buy RCBS....then they might have really developed APS!

I really wanted the Pro Chucker 7 to be a great press. I did play around the 5 briefly when they first came out, and I loved how smooth it was. Too many issues out of the gate though, a bad case feeder design, and stupid way they were selling the die plates with the powder measure killed it for me. I didnt feel like making primer slides that wouldnt break if you looked at them wrong (making then from brass with a steel pin), the constant tinkering with the case feeder (the Hornady case feeder is better, and that says alot), and the insane prices they wanted for bundled parts most people didnt want or need.

 

[Tilos]

I really wanted the Pro Chucker 7 to be a great press. I did play around the 5 briefly when they first came out, and I loved how smooth it was. Too many issues out of the gate though, a bad case feeder design, and stupid way they were selling the die plates with the powder measure killed it for me. I didnt feel like making primer slides that wouldnt break if you looked at them wrong (making then from brass with a steel pin), the constant tinkering with the case feeder (the Hornady case feeder is better, and that says alot), and the insane prices they wanted for bundled parts most people didn't want or need.

Yea, as I recall the root cause was tracked down to the primer slide being TOO THICK and a 2nd primer was partially entering the slide bridging the gap and locking up the primer slide, which quickly broke when the cam began to push that slide forward.

RCBS danced around with different slide designs for a while that didn't work, until a USER (bata tester) chamfered the hole in the primer slide, allowing the 2nd primer to slide up that chamfer, lifting the whole stack of primers in the tube and letting the slide to move forward.
RCBS fix was to machine the plastic molded slide thinner for 1/2 it's length.

This is exactly what happen on the piggyback primer slide except nothing broke because the slide was moved forward by a spring, so it never moved forward from under the tube.
The piggyback primer slide is only 0.005" thicker than a primer, so a chamfer/radius on the top edge of the hole fixed that.
I'll post a picture...soon, PB slide:

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