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Is this a good deal on a Model 19?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by D.B. Cooper, May 15, 2019 at 7:59 PM.

  1. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    https://alaskaslist.com/-3/posts/9_...862_Smith_amp_Wesson_Model_19_357_Magnum.html

    S&W Model 19. Blued. $650

    Was thinking about a 38/357 revolver to shoot USPSA (put away my 44). Was leaning more toward a Security Six as my 44 is also a Ruger.

    What do you guys think?

    Is this a good price on this? (It's a little more than I wanted to spend right now.)
    Will it hold up to 200 rounds per week every week? (38 spl)
     
  2. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Ehhh, $650 is fair for a perfect vintage 4" 19 around here, but no way I would use one for competition.

    Quite aside from not being able to judge the condition of the timing and forcing cone from the ad, parts for older 19s are hard to get AND youre going to be at an accuracy disadvantage by shooting .38s out of that .357 cylinder due to the extra freebore.

    If your shooting .38s, use a .38, such as a M14, 15, or 66. You COULD use downloaded .357 cases, of course, to retain accuracy and avoid battering the forcing cone.

    The Security Six would be a better choice, but a GP100, 586, or 686 would be ideal, IMO.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019 at 8:16 PM
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  3. Whiterook808

    Whiterook808 Member

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    Remember the Model 19 was not designed for a steady diet of .357 Magnums. The idea was a lighter sidearm for LEOs who would carry it with magnums and practice with specials. This is not the gun to run a lot of magnums through. Get a 686, a GP100, or even a Model 27/28 for that type of use.
     
  4. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    I'm with NIGHTLORD40K and Whiterook808: the Model 19 is a little on the light side to be running a steady diet of .357s through it. Likewise I would also go with a S&W L or N frame, a Security Six, or a GP100.
     
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  5. Thomas Mayberry

    Thomas Mayberry Member

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    It will handle 200 rounds a week of .38 special without a problem. I may be a tightwad but IMO $650.00 is a bit high for that gun.
     
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  6. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    It’s only a little high for a 4” around here if it is 90% or better. Try to dicker.
     
  7. Pat Riot

    Pat Riot Member

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    $650 may be a fairly good price in Alaska. It’s not a great deal. Truth be told that is what I paid for my 6” model 19. It was an impulse buy.
     
  8. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

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    I cracked the forcing cone on my Model 19 with a steady diet of 158 grain, full power 357 Magnum loads. I was using the revolver for IHMSA silhouette revolver class at the time.

    If you are can shoot 38 Special level ammunition for the competition you are planning, the Model 19 will be a good option. If you need full power ammunition, I'd use a Ruger GP100 or S&W L-frame.

    $650 is a good price for a K-frame S&W these days
     
  9. luzyfuerza

    luzyfuerza Member

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    In my neck of the woods, $650 is a little rich for a 19. Unless its in pristine condition.

    OP, I'd suggest you look for a used model 10 or (my personal favorite) a model 64 with a 4" barrel for the purposes you describe. Even with shipping and transfer fees, I think you'd come out ahead economically and likely be very pleased with the gun.

    https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/three-inch-k-frames-glock-19-revolvers/


    Try J&G Sales to find a some (although i think most of these are overpriced)

    https://www.jgsales.com/advanced_se.../categories_id/16/inc_subcat/1/page/1/sort/4a

    And, of course, there is a grundle and a half of these available on a BUY-IT-NOW basis on Gunbroker for under $400. Like this one:

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/811474317

    And this one:

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/812930111

    And this one

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/813865836

    You can even buy a NEW model 64 on Gunbroker for less than the $650 that is being asked for the model 19....
     
  10. luzyfuerza

    luzyfuerza Member

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    OP, one thing to note: few would recommend a fixed-sighted revolver for most USPSA shooters, but you've written elsewhere about why you decided to stick with your 44 mag for USPSA, and it seems to me that a k-frame in 38 special is true to those thoughts.
     
  11. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    Well, thanks everyone for your thoughts. It's rare that a discussion here results in a nearly unanimous position on something, so I'll take that as the definitive word on the subject.
     
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  12. CajunBass

    CajunBass Member

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    That's about average for a Model 19 around here. For not much more you can probably find one of the new Model 19-9's. They've taken care of the forcing cone issue and in spite of all the weeping, moaning and gnashing of teeth over things like MIM and "the lock" I think mine is the best Model 19 I've ever owned, and I've owned more than a few. It came out of the box with a really NICE trigger. If by some chance you have a problem with it, it's got a warranty and you can get parts for it. Don't get me wrong, I love the old guns, but I wouldn't use one if I planned to do a lot of shooting. That's why they make the -9.

    20180628_165025_zpstwbanri2.jpg

    20180628_1650450_zpsoxal33hg.jpg

    I've also got a couple of Security-Six 357's too. Great guns, but like the old Model 19's they've been out of production for years, Ruger won't service them, and parts are probably getting hard to find. Darn good guns though.
     
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  13. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

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    A better choice would be a S&W 686.
    Depending on the condition and dash number that $650 is high.
    If you reload use 357MAG brass and load down to 38+p level. The heavier 'L' frame will make the recoil seem less, also avoiding the crud ring when you want to go to magnum rounds.
     
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  14. labnoti

    labnoti Member

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    I don't know anything about USPSA rules, but I thought the 8-shot N-frames were the ticket for most competition. I don't know why anyone would try to compete with a lower-capacity, higher-recoiling gun if they weren't already winning everything unless the rules prohibited it. I read in Cowboy Action practically all the champions are shooting lightly-loaded 38 special (or even 327) and practically no one is shooting .45 Colt. The rules don't allow any benefit from the greater expense and recoil of using .45. Now I suspect other competitions promote greater power factors but it seems an unreasonable place to start if one isn't already winning. Since I don't compete, all I can tell you from personal experience is that I passed over the 19/66 for a larger, heavier, longer revolver to shoot .357 because it's easier to do well.

    The weakness of prior-production 19's is unlikely to affect you. Cracking happened but that doesn't mean it was inevitable or even likely. Its occurrence was probably even less than occasional. But with current production 19's and 66's it's a non-issue as the crane and forcing cone were redesigned. But in the 80's, the preferred solution was the 586/686 because people could shoot them better. S&W could have put a ball detent, thinner ejector rod and a fatter forcing cone on the 19 in the 80's but that wasn't the only issue with the 19. Too many people couldn't shoot 357 well in a 19. The same way too many people today don't shoot .40 as well as they do 9mm. Today, people have either made 9mm perform well enough or accepted that it performs well enough. Back then, it was hard to deny the shortcomings of .38 Special. So instead of downsizing the ammo, they upsized the gun. The full lug on a 586/686 doesn't reinforce the forcing cone, nor does it make the gun any stronger. It does reduce muzzle flip and it does slow the recoil velocity. It's also not the only place on the L-frame that there is more mass than a K-frame. Compared to an N-frame, the L-frame has a longer cylinder to accommodate longer bullets, and it has a lower bore-axis to reduce the torque in recoil. With the underlug and a lighter cylinder (especially the later 7-shot), the balance of the 586/686 is better than a Model 27.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 12:42 PM
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  15. Hondo 60
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    Hondo 60 Member

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    Pic is so small it's impossible to tell the condition.

    Maybe if it's LNIB/safe queen condition.
    But I don't have a, or believe in, safe queens.
    Nothin' against those that have 'em, but it's just not me.

    $650 seems a bit high for my taste.
    I think I'd pass.
     
  16. Pat Riot

    Pat Riot Member

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    From the Pew Pew Tactical website:

    https://www.pewpewtactical.com/choosing-uspsa-division/

    USPSA Revolver Division
    Fans of older guns may also be interested in the Revolver division which, as its name indicates, is home of the wheelgun. Much like Single Stack, Revolver allows for both major and minor power factor, with varying capacity limits for each.

    Revolver Major allows a maximum of six rounds in the gun at any time, and Revolver minor allows up to eight rounds. Either way, standard iron sights are required. In recent years, the eight-round 9mm revolver has been particularly popular in this division, though the division itself often sees few competitors overall.

    SW-Revolver-1024x576.jpg
    Smith and Wesson dominates Revolver division
    Regardless of power factor, Revolver shooters can opt to reload with any method she chooses, from loose rounds or speed strips to speed loaders or moonclips.

    The devices used for reloading can be mounted anywhere on the belt but are normally placed right in front. Holsters follow the same rules as for Limited and related divisions, meaning that race holsters are permitted, as is placement behind or in front of the strong-side hip.

    MoonClipHolder-e1493770108442.jpg
    This complicated-looking mechanism uses a spring to dispense moonclips to the same spot every time. On the side is a more standard holder. (Credit: Bill Duda)
     
  17. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    I have a Model 19. I love it. I shoot a fair bit of USPSA. I love it, too. I have never tried to combine the two, because the Model 19, like any other non-moonclip, 6-shot-minor revolver, is utterly uncompetitive. Moreover, all the standing reloads would become very, very tiresome. Short of an unreliable gun (which the Model 19 is not), it's hard for me to imagine a more frustrating gun to shoot USPSA with. ETA: OK, a 5-shot J-frame would be even more annoying.

    Viable USPSA revolver choices: S&W 929, 627 (8-shot version)... maybe the new-ish Ruger 8-shot thing. If you wanted to go old school and didn't care about all the standing reloads, a 625.
     
  18. Dave T

    Dave T Member

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    The OP said in the first post that he was going to shoot 38 Specials, so the next dozen posts harp on the 19 not holding up to a steady diet of 357 Mags. Reading more carefully might help to better answer the actual question.

    The M-19 will hold up to thousands of rounds of 38 Specials. I've seen any number of PPC bull guns built on K-frame Magnums and they lasted through numerous seasons of competition. And a M-19's slightly heavier barrel than a M-15 would be a boon in competition.

    Dave
     
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  19. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Yep, it will hold up to a huge number of 38 specials. It's just the wrong gun for the game referenced in the OP's post. It's like taking a patridge-sighted, full-choked turkey-hunting shotgun to play in a skeet match. It's legal... it's just going to be very frustrating. You might do it as an experiment. You might do it if you've never shot skeet before and are just trying it to see if it has any interest for you. But BUYING a turkey gun specifically for use in a skeet league? Bonkers. And that's probably more sane than buying a Model 19 for USPSA.
     
  20. thomas15

    thomas15 Member

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  21. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I wouldn't use a 19 for what you are describing- its just too nice of a gun to treat so harshly. I would look for a Ruger GP100 or one of the whatever-six models.
     
  22. AZAndy
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    AZAndy Contributing Member

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    Have you thought about shooting ICORE instead of USPSA? They have a "classic" division, which is perfect for .38 Special. The power factor only needs to be 120, so medium .38 can do it. I have a Model 15 and a Model 67 set up for that.
     
  23. tallpaul

    tallpaul Member

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    I love my model 19's but anymore for the use you mention a ruger GP100 due tot he lack of factory replacement parts/service on the security six series or a 586/686 0r even n frame would likely get the not from me.
     
  24. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    ICORE doesn't exist in Alaska.
     
  25. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    I passed on the 19. At $650 I can get a GP100.
     
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