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Is this a safe load with Berry's bullets for a 45 acp???

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Kraylon, Mar 13, 2009.

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  1. Kraylon

    Kraylon Member

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    I am brand new to reloading expect when i helped my dad when i was a little guy.

    equiment i have: lee's classic press, lyman dps 3, redding 45 dies, and a lee's factory crimp die. speer loading manual #14, a lee loading manual that came with my reloading kit, and the new hodgon magizine style manual

    I have been loading berrys 230gn round nose bullets with 231 powder at
    5.8gn for my sig p220 45 and since i have been reading a bunch of dos and don'ts with plated bullets i just want to be sure im not got to burn my nose off when i go to the range.

    i came up with the 5.8gn from the speer manual using fmj load data, 5.8gn is in the middle of the powder range

    the other bullets that i loaded with my dad using the same bullets we used 700x powder at 4.9gn is this a safe load with these bullets???

    we came up with 4.9gn from the speer manual and 4.9gn is also in the middle of the powder range

    and for fucture info i will soon be loading 165gn berrys flat points for my wifes sig p229 using the 231 powder i don't have equiment for the 40 yet but its on its way, so i haven't looked it up yet but what would be a good starting point with these bullets??

    i know its a lot of questions i just want to be safe and make sure im using the right loads.

    Thanks
     
  2. MetalMan52

    MetalMan52 Member

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    Load

    Are you sure you looked at that load correctly? Please verify that load before shooting it.

    I wouldn't shoot them as they are over the maximum load for that powder and a jacketed bullet, not a mid range load.

    Look at this site.

    http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

    I believe that for plated bullets you use the reloading data for lead or the lower end of the jacketed data.

    Pat
     
  3. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    5.7 Grs of W-231 is all you need with any plated or jacketed 230 gr RN. It should give you right around 830/840 FPS from a 5" tube. 5.5 Grs of W-231 gives me around 800 FPS, is accurate, and makes for a pleasent practice load. If you want more performance out of the 230 Gr, go with Unique, AA #5, WSF, True Blue, etc.

    5.8 Grs is toward the top of data for 230 Gr jacketed. It's not a starting point. That Berrys 230 Gr plated will take running 850 FPS in the .45 with no problem.
     
  4. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    Walkalong gave you good advice. I use the same load he does with Winchester 231 for the Berry's 230 grain RN bullet.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
  5. solvability

    solvability Member

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    I use 5.2 w231 with that bullet as a practice load - pleasant and accurate to shoot.
     
  6. Exposure

    Exposure Member

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    4.9 Grains of 231 with my Rainier 230 grain slugs.

    Easy on the gun, accurate, plus it goes a long ways!

    5.8 Is definitely at/approaching max, be careful!
     
  7. Kraylon

    Kraylon Member

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    the speer manual says for tmj rn 230 gn with 231 powder is 5.6 min and 6.2 max

    the hodgon manual says 239 gr hdy fmj using 231 powder is 4.2 min and 5.3 max

    in the lee manaul that came with my reloading kit it says the same as the hodgon manual

    i think i made 2 mistakes 1 was i thought plated bullets were the same as full metal jackets since they look and feel the same, and 2 was i trusted the speer manual and not the other 2 that have the same data.

    now i got to figure out what to do with the 200 that i loaded at 5.8gr

    the gun that i will be using for these is a sig p220 4 inch barrel
     
  8. Kraylon

    Kraylon Member

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    for a practice bullet it looks like 5.2 is a good started point is that correct???
     
  9. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Yes, 5.2 to start is good. As for the 5.8 ones, as long as it is 5.8 and not more, they will be OK.
     
  10. Kraylon

    Kraylon Member

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    they are at 5.8 and no more im glad i can shoot them instead of taking them all a part lesson learned here.

    how about the 100 that were loaded with 700x at 4.8

    and with the 165 flat point 40 using 231 what is a good starting point?? the lee and hodgon manual doesn't list 165 flat point ont 165 jhp
    and my speer manaul says 5.8 min and 6.3 max using 231 powder but then at the bottom it says that load is for appoximate 165gr law enforcement loads ("40 lite") i don't know what a 40 lite load is

    and lastly what is the best reloading manual to get??
     
  11. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    The Speer #13 manual is a good one. That one says 5.6 to 6.2. 6.2 is hot in my pistols. Well, 6.1 is hot, and very snappy, that's as far as I went. I use my Speer #13 as a reference all the time. One thing I like about it is that they use real guns to check loads.

    Different manuals say different things. Different guns/test barrels etc give different results. They say start low and work up for many reasons, that is a real good one.

    4.8 Grs of 700X is .1 grains over the data Hodgdon shows, but .3 grs under what Speer #13 shows. Again, not a starting point, but probably just fine.

    Learn a lesson here. Consult every source you have, start low, work up. :)

    Alliant

    Hodgdon

    Ramshot

    Accurate

    Vihtavuori
     
  12. redintex

    redintex Member

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    5.1g of W231 with 230 LRN has worked perfectly for thousands of practice rounds from all/any of my 1911's. I can't speak for the Sigs, but will only speak of my own experience. I have seen where Berry's staff say to load them the same as lead, and that they should stay under 1200 fps. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but that is my understanding. 5.1 has been a magic number for my practice rounds.

    redintex
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2009
  13. floydster

    floydster Member

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    I use 5.2 grs. 231 in my .45 Witness Elite Match using 230 gr. Berry's RN plated, soft shooting and good accuracy.:)
     
  14. 45ACPUSER

    45ACPUSER Member

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    When loading plated bullets you should use Lead Cast Bullet data.

    You should not pluck a load out the air. You need work up a load that is SAFE, ACCURATE, and RELIABLE in your gun.

    Reloading takes time!

    Cartridge Information
    Case: Winchester Barrel Length: 5"
    Twist: 1:16" Trim Length: .893"
    Primer: FEDERAL 150

    45 ACP
    Cartridge Load Data Starting Loads

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Maximum Loads

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Bullet Weight (Gr.) Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
    230 GR. HDY FMJ FP 231 .451" 1.200" 4.2 751 13,800 CUP 5.3 832 16,800 CUP
    230 GR. LRN 231 .452" 1.200" 4.3 699 12,200 CUP 5.3 834 16,900 CUP


    NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS
     
  15. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    That simply is not the case. It is a safe answer, but not accurate.
     
  16. 45ACPUSER

    45ACPUSER Member

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    Walkalong it is the RIGHT ANSWER for a noob reloader. It RIGHT ANSWER period......that is unless you have published reloading manual lately? I doubt that!
    So, the right answer is to use lead data!
     
  17. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I don't have to publish load data for plated bullets. It has been done by the professionals. Good to see you are still your jolly old self though. :)
     
  18. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    I agree with Walkalong. Not only has Accurate Arms published loading data for plated bullets, but so has Western Powders, for use with their Ramshot line of powders. Midway also did quite a bit of work with them in their One Caliber Load Books.

    There is data for plated bullets available, but you may have to actually read the manuals to find it....

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
  19. 45ACPUSER

    45ACPUSER Member

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    I always stick with current data as it reflects on what is currently available. Oh yeah for got he is using 231 and there is no Hodgdon data for plated bullets.
     
  20. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    As I said, it's in the manuals. You know, the kind that are printed on paper and have bindings.....

    Ramshot specifically lists Berry's bullets with several of their powders, in their printed manual.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
  21. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    Oh, and actually, Berry's bullets have heavier plating than Rainier bullets. I've had several face to face conversations with Gilbert Berry about this issue at the SHOT Shows.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
  22. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Pressure is the thing that destroys guns and does hurtful things to soft tissue.

    With even a low-pressure cartridge like the .45 ACP, you're touching off
    some 20,000 psi about 18 inches from the end of your nose. As a wise man once noted...that's way yonder more than enough force to blow your eyes through the back of your head.

    When in doubt, err on the side of caution. As a rule of thumb...a jacketed 230-grain bullet will generate more pressure than a lead bullet of the same weight with a given powder charge.

    Wouldn't the practical answer be to use jacketed data, start below the maximum and work up toward the required velocity level?

    I'm just sayin'....
     
  23. RVenick

    RVenick Member

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    Doesn't Berry's say to use Jacketed bullet data instead of lead.

    As for the OP's question about 40S&W and 165g plated I would start at 4.6g W231. I use 4.9g for 165g fmj in my M&P 40 and it cycles perfectly.
     
  24. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I believe you are correct, but Midway did it in their .45 ACP LoadMAP

    Midway's LoadMAPs show some hot loads using some long O.A.L.'s when working up the load - Tread carefully in the yellow and red areas and pay attention to your O.A.L. compared to theirs. The higher pressure the caliber is, the more important this is. Be careful, Have fun.

    ....................................Repeat link to plated data..................................

    Midway .45 ACP LoadMAP
     

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  25. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

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    Love all the color in that manual.

    Midway must have hired the Easter Bunny to do the layout. :D
     
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