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Is this ammo safe for lever guns?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by BlueHeelerFl, May 3, 2019.

  1. BlueHeelerFl

    BlueHeelerFl Member

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    I was shooting this Fiocchi 142 gr TC 357 mag ammo in my new Marlin 1894C the other day. Due to the shape of the TC bullet, is this ammo safe to load in the tube of the lever gun?

    I didn't think about this until after I shot them.

    2ab159b8155ddcc0b395811eee357e86_4.jpg
     
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  2. forty_caliber
    • Contributing Member

    forty_caliber Contributing Member

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    I wouldn't have a problem with using that type in a tube magazine. I don't think the point is sharp enough to detonate a primer. I regularly use similar shaped SWCs in my .45C Henry.

    .40
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
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  3. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    yup your fine, plus with rimmed rounds the bullet tip is only 1/2 over the primer.
     
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  4. Pat Riot

    Pat Riot Member

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    You should be fine. The recoil is not enough to be concerned about.
     
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  5. 351 WINCHESTER

    351 WINCHESTER Member

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    I don't know how you reckon that. The bullet is squarely over the primer unless you're shooting a Remington 14 or 141.
     
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  6. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    put 2 rimmed rounds on a flat surface. the taper of the round keeps the bullets of dead center. the op's photo even shows the rake in the case.
     
  7. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    So... that’s not a thing...
     
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  8. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Push the two bullets together, watch physics in action. The spring pressure of the mag tube encourages the rounds to compress to their minimal linear dimension, which is found when coaxial. That “rake” laying on the table, not in a mag tube is not how they orient in the mag.
     
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  9. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    I bought a quantity of that ammo from a guy who used to shoot it in a 357 lever action. He said he had no problem.

    I guess he didn't but I only use that ammo in revolvers. You might get away with something for 100 years but then it happens. Why tempt fate?
     
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  10. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    well tell the french that, they would disagree.
     
  11. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    Rounds may or may not align perfectly nose to primer in a typical tubular magazine, but the Lebel isn't really a fair example of what happens in a typical tubular magazine with typical ammo.

    The Lebel 1886 was designed with a follower that tilted the round. In addition, the spitzer ammo had a case head designed to trap the nose of the bullet behind it in the magazine so it was unlikely to touch the primer. In spite of those design features, some sources indicate that the spitzer ammo also featured a modified primer to reduce the chances of a mag tube detonation. Finally, the entire round was significantly tapered and had quite a large rim.

    There have been, as I recall some instances of bullets with truncated/flat point noses setting off a round in a tubular magazine when the sharp edge of the nose dinged the primer of the round in front of it. One specific incident I remember reading was with 45-70+P rounds loaded with hardcast flat nose bullets in a Marlin rifle. Seems like I have seen reports of two incidents with this combination.

    I wouldn't use the ammo in question in a tube-fed gun. No matter how well things line up when everything is at rest in the magazine, when things start bouncing around during recoil, there's no guarantee that everything will stay neatly aligned.

    Perhaps that's being overcautious, but it's my gun and my hand and I like them both--a lot. There's lots of ammo out there that doesn't present any practical possibility of this issue.
     
  12. Old Shooter

    Old Shooter Member

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    Sounds like a good excuse to buy yourself a .357 revolver.
     
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  13. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    That.... wasting time....
     
  14. 351 WINCHESTER

    351 WINCHESTER Member

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    In a detachable magazine with a rimmed ctg. yes, but we are talking a tubular magazine.
     
  15. Dr T

    Dr T Member

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    Three Questions:

    What are the cross sectional areas, respectively, of the end of the firing pin and the tip of the bullet?
    What are the impact velocity and force per square unit of area necessary to compress the primer anvil adequately to detonate?
    Is the recoil of the 357 mag in this firearm adequate to do this?
     
  16. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    It’s not the recoil, it’s the dead stop when the follower slams the rounds against the cartridge stop when cycling.
     
  17. .455_Hunter

    .455_Hunter Member

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    I wouldn't be comfortable shooting that ammo in a tube magazine gun- too many other good options.
     
  18. Goosey

    Goosey Member

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    I looked this up just now. Pretty wild. I know boolit people love their hardcast meplats, but if you have a meplat that is hard enough, sharp enough and just the right size that it can detonate a primer ahead of it... that's simply a stupid bullet design.
     
  19. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

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    If you’ve ever seen the aftermath of a detonation in a magazine tube you’d not be taking any chances.
     
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  20. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

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    no answer for your problem, but since you said "new Marlin" can we hear about it? Specifically where you got it, what it cost, special order/off the shelf, quality?
     
  21. BlueHeelerFl

    BlueHeelerFl Member

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    I got it off the rack at my LGS for $675. They had 2 in stock.

    Quality wise the rifle seems to be very good. The fit and finish seem to be good, but to be honest I'm not an expert. Its a good looking gun

    The lever action is very smooth. It seems to be smoother than my previous 1894CS. It also seems to cycle 38s better than my old one. At the end of my first range session I ran into a handful of minor cycling issues, but I shot the gun without cleaning it first. I was also overly tired by the end if than session as well, worked about 13 hours the day before.

    The loading gate was a bit stiff but no where near as bad as what I read on the internet.

    I was impressed with the accuracy. At 25 yards offhand, with buckhorn sights and bad eyes I did pretty good.

    The Fiocchi TC rounds loaded and cycled perfectly and hit right to point of aim. I did have difficulty with 2 different types of hp not wanting to load properly, but others loaded fine.

    I am very happy with my new 1894C!
     
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  22. Dr T

    Dr T Member

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    Just for the record: While I am comfortable with the 30-30 with LeveRevolution bullets and the shock absorber tip, I am still nervous about those Winchester 30-30 loads with that 150 gr RN Hollowpoint...(Plus, they don't shoot worth a darn in either of my 30-30's)
     
  23. 351 WINCHESTER

    351 WINCHESTER Member

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    No need to be nervous about these rounds. I've been shooting them in my Marlin for 30 years & accuracy is outstanding. I have to special order them & they are not cheap, but you can load & unload all day long without harming or deforming the bullet not to mention that they are pure poison on deer.
     
  24. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

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    Thanks for the reply, I have a JM 94c I show to friends, many want to go get one, but can't find them. I tried ordering one a while back and was told it wasn't worth the effort (for them to order it).
    I got mine shortly before the closure of the old factory, and it was $330, but I would consider it a bargain to get a good one for $700.
     
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  25. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

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    If you only load two you have no need to worry.
     
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