Is this round acceptable for deer hunting?

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by ldlfh7, Jun 29, 2015.

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  1. jrdolall

    jrdolall Member

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    I would pass that shot with any gun I own. Shooting through branches with ANY caliber is much less ethical than using a .223, or a 22-250, or a .243, or a 6mm, or a 25-06.
     
  2. ZeroJunk

    ZeroJunk Member

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    Maybe branch was not the right word, but in many types of terrain there is vegetation such that you are always potentially shooting through some over hanging stuff or thin ground cover that you may not even notice. The potential is there. And many if not most where a trophy buck is concerned would not pass the shot with any gun they own. It is reality.
     
  3. Davek1977

    Davek1977 Member

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    I've killed both whitetail and mule deer bucks here in South Dakota with the .223 out of a 16 in AR-15. It did what it was supposed to do, and the deer I kill with my 7mm aren't any "deader" than these were ;) As for what I;d do on a questionable shot with armed as such? I'd pass. I only take shots I full confidence in being successful. I won't that a shot that "might" work regardless if I'm hunting with my .223 or my 7mm Rem Mag. I hunt in an area with a relatively high population of deer, plenty of private land at my disposal, and absolutely no reason to take a shot that "might" work "if the caliber I'm shooting is big enough". I've let many a deer walk in my day, and have absolutely no issue doing so in the future. Its just a deer...I've shot plenty thus far, and will shoot plenty more most likely. No need to take c=marginal shots to do so, regardless of caliber used
     
  4. ZeroJunk

    ZeroJunk Member

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    I wasn't suggesting that anybody would intentionally try to shoot through a limb to get a deer. But, in this area unless you want to sit in a stand on the side of a field you are shooting over, under, or around something all the time. The idea is not to hit it. But, there is thick and thicker and the holes get smaller and the temptation is higher with a big buck for many.

    Certainly if a man has matured to a point he can calmly make a decision that fits the cartridge he has chosen then all is well. I just wonder if the calm collective demeanor has kept up with the trend toward smaller calibers.

    A big fast bullet will go where a little fast bullet won't.

    Personally, I don't see the point other than it is just in style.
     
  5. Davek1977

    Davek1977 Member

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    You hunt witha different caliber of person than I do. The people I hunt with would no more take a marginal shot on a yearling doe than they would on a trophy buck. Size doesn't dictate the risk one is willing to take. Reality that most will take a shot that is less than ideal regardless of caliber? If thats true among the company you keep, I'd look for other hunting partners.
    QUOTE]the temptation is higher with a big buck for many.

    [/QUOTE]

    If the temptation to make a less than perfect shot is inspired by a "big deer"...I don't want to hunt with you. The size of the rack doesn't determine whether or not I'll take a risky shot. AS for suitability, I too believe in "use enough gun". In my case, the .223 has proven to be "enough gun" repeatedly, on big northern deer even.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
  6. TimSr

    TimSr Member

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    The OP never mentions where he is hunting, but if you re shooting German shepherd size deer in the south, the 223 is fine if you wisely select a bullet that will perform. If you are shooting big midwestern deer, or western mulies it will present you with limitations on distance and presentable shots. Those limitations could be reduced with some of the 30 caliber rounds. I'd opt for the .30 unless you have taken enough deer with it that you are bored doing so, and looking for a greater challenge.
     
  7. ZeroJunk

    ZeroJunk Member

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    It is a fact that on internet forums all shots are perfect shots, nobody ever gets buck fever, and every hunter as well as his partners always makes the correct decision every time.
     
  8. TimSr

    TimSr Member

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    It's also common on the internet for people to pick apart and argue with your vocabulary and examples even though they don't actually disagree with the point you are trying to make.
     
  9. IBEWBULL

    IBEWBULL Member

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    I am in Wisconsin. I would bet farm herd control included in the 11 Deer killed.
    I have killed deer with .223 JSP in 55 grain.
    It was a straight away running shot at the head. It a fence a causing a hit in the spine rear quarter. Penetration at 100 yards was poor. Maybe 6 to 8 inches. Another shot put her out of her misery. I will not shoot deer with a .223
    again. I respect the animal enough to use the most gun I can.
    The 30-30 , .300 Savage, .308 and 30-06 are available.
    I use my 99 Savage for WI deer now.

    Southern deer are smaller and a different game altogether.
     
  10. Sav .250

    Sav .250 Member

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    If that cal meets the minimum requirements for hunting deer in your state .....sure.
     
  11. jrdolall

    jrdolall Member

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    There are a lot of people that talk about certain guns, Marlin 336 for example, as being "brush guns". Long time shooters understand that this doesn't mean the bullet is designed to go through brush but that the gun is easier to handle in brushy terrain. Newer hunters can and do interpret this as a cartridge that is capable of going through small limbs or grass and still killing the animal. While there is a certain amount of truth in this it needs to be clear that NO deer hunting cartridge is designed to hit anything other than the target. Will it? I have no doubt that a bigger bullet will be more likely to punch through underbrush and still have a chance to hit the target but even a tiny branch can redirect the bullet and cause a bad shot or a miss.

    I agree completely with your point about younger hunters and by young I don't mean age but hunting maturity. I have no doubt that some of the people that hunt with me will take a marginal shot on a button head buck that is running away through thick brush and all they have is a butt shot. As someone else already noted I am an old hunter and have been doing it for 40 years. I don't even shoot at a deer that is moving beyond a walk and rarely even then. I have learned through years of experience that virtually all deer will eventually stop and check their surroundings so I wait. I understand deer behavior so I know that a buck moving with his nose to the ground may very well NOT stop and I am good with letting that deer walk. I have multiple "deer of a lifetime" mounts and only one that I recall was moving when I shot him. I hunt my own land mostly and I know others have different situations so I don't try t put us all in a box that suits my situation.
    Ethical shots are about shot placement more than caliber. Remember that I have never shot a deer with a .223 but I wouldn't feel bad hunting with the proper ammo and in the normal conditions for my area. I have made near perfect shots with a 30-06 and had to look for hours to find the deer and I have made gut shots where the deer dropped in his tracks. I think that the capability of the shooter should outweigh the capabilities of the cartridge in most cases. If you are forced by circumstances to take marginal shots then I think a 30 cal bullet will be better than a .223.
     
  12. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

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    If our regs change I'll get a 6mm-223 :D
     
  13. Davek1977

    Davek1977 Member

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    And a bigger caliber doesn't make up for any of those mistakes....as far as always making the right decision, when we're taking into account something's very LIFE, I think the least we can do is strive to always make ethical shots, and barring an ethical shot, passing on the shot altogether...............NOT hoping our choice of round will somehow negate our poor judgement. When I hunt with the .223, I'm keenly aware of its limitations, both in regards to range and penetration. Its a choice I sometimes make. An AR-15 with a 16 in barrel just carries easier than a 26 in barreled 7mag. If I wanted to kill deer at 500 yards, and would be absolutely devastated to let a deer walk....no, the .223 wouldn't be my choice...nor would a handgun or a bow. When I really could care less about another deer in the freezer or another rack on the wall, I mix things up a little and choose a weapon that will still cleanly harvest game, but without being able to kill deer as far away as I can see them! Ive shot deer with aa variety of calibers over the years, and every single round I've chosen has put my deer in the freezer. That, to me, says my choices are effective. Your results may vary
     
  14. TimSr

    TimSr Member

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    I hear this a lot, and a lot of people would agree, but I don't. One of the greatest obstacles to passing a lower power or smaller caliber bullet all the way through big game with the intended path of pentration is an animal's bone structure. The "It's all about shot placement" mindset includes a list of bones you have to shoot around, and angles you can't shot because it will alter the bullet's direction. The heavier and faster the bullet, the more likely it will penetrate deer, penetrate bone, and maintain a wound channel with less directional deviation after contacting or passing through that bone. In other words, when that buck is quartering towards you, and his angled shoulder is in front of the boileroom, a round that will shoot through it, and continue in the same direction is better than a round that will hit it and change angle of direction and pass through his guts instead of his lungs. It may not make up for a "mistake", but it changes the definition of what a "mistake" is.
     
  15. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    Harvest is UNLIMITED in Ky. You buy your license and tags and the tags are good for 1 "antlered or antlerless" and 1 "antlerless". Once those are filled you can keep buying tags in pairs that are both "antlerless".
     
  16. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    I've never seen a 180-220 pound German shepherd before. I personally know of an Alabama buck taken within a few miles of my house that weighed 360 pounds (in the round) on certified scales. I think the "tiny Southern deer" comes from folks taking the first deer they see (our herd is among the largest in the country) and not waiting on a fully mature deer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  17. jrdolall

    jrdolall Member

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    I see that a lot as well and always chuckle. While Midwest and Canada deer generally have bigger bodies I routinely see deer that field dress over 150 here in Alabama and central Georgia has 300 pounders killed every year.
    I have hunted the deer in Panhandle Florida and they tend to be pretty tiny
     
  18. TimSr

    TimSr Member

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    I'm open to being educated. :) My southern deer reference comes from family and friend's tales of deer in the Carolinas. I did not know Alabama had such large deer. I guess after getting a southern mule deer in California, and seeing blacktails in Alaska, I shouldn't have assigned small deer to "the south". :)
     
  19. 3212

    3212 Member

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    I've hunted deer with the 30-30 and .243.I prefer the the .243 now because I have access to an area that offers 300 yard shots.Once in a small clearing on a PA mountainside I went prone in the grass as deer approached.The buck was last in line.As he passed at about 30 yards I touched off the .243.Clean miss.Luckily, he stopped between 2 trees quartering away.I rose to a kneeling position and dropped him.The grass must have deflected the first shot.I shoot 100 grain spitzers or 100 grain core-locts.My longest kill was 270 yards.The bullet passed through the upper leg breaking the bone,entered the chest and blew up in the heart.How can a bullet be deflected by grass and penetrate like that at that distance?
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  20. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Do you not have 'party hunting' in your state?

    In WI any hunter in a group hunting within visual/auditory range of each other, can shoot a deer for any other member of said party. They must then remain with the carcass until the person who is going to tag it arrives. Usually the group 'drives' a set area, with drivers walking towards standers, pushing the deer through the woods.

    I personally do not hunt in this fashion, (for safety reasons) so I haven't hunted with him for several years; but it does net results.

    He also could have tagged those 11 themselves, if 10 of them were does. In many areas of WI, you can buy unlimited antlerless tags. They give you two with the license.



    Is .223 still not legal on that side of the river? (I grew up in MN, just curious.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2015
  21. NINEX19

    NINEX19 Member

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    No, you are allowed 1 tag/year for any animal (except for bear when you can purchase 2 and some special limited drawings for other animals) and only the person that shot the animal (whatever it is... deer, elk, cougar, bear, moose, goat) is allowed to tag it. Anything else is considered poaching with extremely harsh penalties.
     
  22. jrdolall

    jrdolall Member

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    We don't have anything like Party Hunting here either. Of course with the limits we have it is rare for a Warden to care who shot the deer. They check licenses, baiting and such more often.
     
  23. ZeroJunk

    ZeroJunk Member

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    There is a lot of variation in deer size just within this state. While 200 pound plus bucks are not uncommon at all in this area they are scarce if they exist at all in places like Holly Shelter which is right at the coast. And, there are some really small deer on the outer banks. Somebody needs to plant some beans out there I guess.
     
  24. C.R.

    C.R. Member

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    Many deer have been taken with a .22 rim fire but I wouldnt make a habbit of that. .223 might do the job,but there are better calibers . .270 and up In my opinion .
     
  25. jeepnik

    jeepnik Member

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    Like your screen name. It likely confuses most.:cool:
     
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