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ISIS terrorist attack at Minnesota mall

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by ACP, Sep 18, 2016.

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  1. ACP

    ACP Member

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/19/u...er-in-minnesota-mall-after-8-are-stabbed.html


    "Later Sunday, Mr. Kleis identified the off-duty officer as Jason Falconer, a police officer in nearby Avon, Minn. Mr. Kleis said video footage of the shooting, which has not been released publicly, showed Officer Falconer confronting the attacker in a Macy’s store and shooting him as he charged with a knife.

    “For me watching it, it looked like a training video for what law enforcement should do,” Mr. Kleis said."

    So, a few takeaways, which are really not new to anyone here:

    1) terrorists like attacking malls, even if it is a stabbing attack and not a shooting or a bombing.

    2) most mall shoppers are unarmed, apparently.

    3) the terrorist was dressed in a "security" uniform, more and more a tactic of terrorists to lull you into a false sense of complacency and to add to the element of surprise.

    4) the good guy ended the fight with a handgun while the terrorist was charging him with a knife. No 50-foot groups to brag about here, folks.

    5) the good guy apparently only hit the terrorist, and not any of the god-knows-how-many innocent civilians cowering behind clothes racks, sheet rock walls, out in the open, etc.
     
  2. RX-79G

    RX-79G Member

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    The woman in front of me at the grocery store wrote a check, slowing everything down. I think a spokesman for the Islamic State will be claiming her actions as another strike for Islam, too.
     
  3. Indawind

    Indawind Member

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    Well hopefully there will always be an off duty cop close by since everyone in a mall is disarmed by the signs except those deemed responcable to carray a gun.:scrutiny:

    1 profiling may save your life
    2 even an "official" fits into #1, why would someone in uniform have a knife in his hand?
    3 so, Whatcha gonna do?

    BTW, if making a shot like that freaks you out, training and range time might be something to concider.
     
  4. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    Good on the off duty LEO.


    This is the reason I get range time at least once a week.
     
  5. ACP

    ACP Member

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  6. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    Hope the victims (and their families) recover quickly... Noted that the outcome was a pretty good one and the intervening individual should be properly recognized and commended publicly for his service. Now if that state's leaders would just learn to speak clearly and plainly about this kind of issue... Wait, isn't there an election coming where plain speaking is one of the factors involved?

    At any rate the shooting officer gets an attaboy from this corner (far away Florida).
     
  7. Shovelhead

    Shovelhead Member

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    This is not the first time a terrorist has asked about a victim's religious beliefs before attacking them.

    If a stranger asks you if you are a Muslim, you should be be watching their hands, jumping to a heightened awareness condition, and preparing to defend and/or exit the area quickly.
     
  8. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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  9. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    Exactly - and the rule about guns includes weapons in general. Weasel language from the liability minded corporate owners.

    So the takeaway is that a cop who willfully violates their policy but stops an attacker is ok, but someone who is otherwise outed should be persecuted and asked to leave the establishment?

    Where do you stand on that?

    Can we even discuss it here? I know it can and will be elsewhere, and what I do. Do we place a rigid adherence to the shifting sands of "case" law or exercise our inalienable right?

    In these days of political correctness I would have every expectation of seeing an article or editorial in the MSM expressing outrage over the officer's deliberate flounting of the mall owners property rights to deny guns there, and even language supporting the deserved attack on oppressors of Islam who support open indecencies in that Mall that are violations of Sharia law. Or whatever. All in the name of diversity.

    So, you decide - do you ignore the sign, or not? The responding officer DID. We can jump thru legalistic interpretation for another ten pages debating it, but the final decision is this: Would you prefer to have your gun on you shopping as an attacker comes at you with a bloody knife, or not?

    There are some here who would say YOU are in the wrong just as much as the attacker. All based on an adherence to their interpretation of law.

    Does common sense even come into it? I will say that when it comes down to the final choice, there are a lot of people who would impose their interpretation of what the law says on you, but they will defend their special privileges. Apparently the law allows them, but not you.

    We have that thread running now - it's about CCW and 50 state reciprocity under LEOSA retired carry regardless of where, which includes NYC. They can, you can't.

    Basically because of signs and taking the law before common sense, we got a lot of people cut and stabbed before we came to the "good samaritan" who was exercising either special privilege - or who defiantly ignored the signs and rules.

    Food for thought, pretty much, as a discussion of carry past those signs is largely out of the question here, as amply demonstrated in the past.
     
  10. jimbo555

    jimbo555 Member

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    My rule of thumb. No metal detector, I'm carrying.
     
    wooldl likes this.
  11. telomerase

    telomerase Member

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    Good points Tirod. Here in NH there's not much barrier to carrying (thanks to the Free State Project NH doesn't have many weapon laws... e.g. we threw away the sharp-object laws entirely), but most other places are doing their best to disarm the law-abiding.
     
  12. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

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    If the penalty doesn't reach felony status or involve metal detectors I will carry. I have different feelings about individuals dwelling but those are changing.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
     
  13. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    The officer was a competitive shooter, etc.

    Incidents like this take the sails out of the usual blather about unchambered carry or the first round being a blank.

    Be competent and cut the crap. If you are not competent enough not to shoot yourself, maybe you should carry a big stick.
     
  14. RX-79G

    RX-79G Member

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    If someone doesn't want my gun on their private property, I either leave the gun home or don't go on their private property. That's how rights work.
     
  15. another pake

    another pake Member

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  16. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Let's keep this on topic for the ST&T subforum. Most of the posts made so far would fit in General Gun Discussions.
     
  17. another pake

    another pake Member

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    In keeping with the sub forum ST&T...

    Locally we have heard a few items early on that may or may not make it to the national news.

    Local authorities commented soon after the attacks about several issues that caught my attention.

    In their praise of the off duty officer who stopped the attacks it was said that after initially confronting the assailant and ordering him to the ground the assailant began to comply, then changed his mind and began to charge at the officer. It was reported that the assailant "quickly closed the 50 foot gap that separated them". The officer fired, the assailant fell and proceeded to get up at least three more times before finally stopping for good.

    Training? OK for stationary targets, but sometimes they close the gap toward you quickly and get up again and again.

    Over here we're very thankful that a well trained individual knew what to do and did it.
     
  18. TimSr

    TimSr Member

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    I would be very interested in the answer to this as well. If the officer was violating mall policy, or state law, I would imagine bringing that up would be very embarrassing for those who make the rules.
     
  19. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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  20. RX-79G

    RX-79G Member

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  21. ACP

    ACP Member

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    Woah, he picked the wrong dude to attack. EXCELLENT.
     
  22. entropy

    entropy Member

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    In MN, LEO's are considered 'on duty' 24/7 re carry. They can carry anywhere, anytime. Darn, RX-79G beat me to it.
     
  23. RX-79G

    RX-79G Member

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    It also sounds like the cop approached and announced himself - he wasn't just attacked.
     
  24. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    While guns are a great answer, they are not the only answer. Far too few people realize this or realize it in a crisis. They are generally not situationally aware nor do they have any idea of what they would do in a crisis. In all places, a shopping mall if full of things that can be used for improvised weapons to stop such a person.

    Being without a gun should not mean being defenseless.

    This attack went on for 5 minutes or so, more than enough time for somebody to have tried to stop him other than the cop.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
  25. dwjwin50

    dwjwin50 Member

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    We know this scumbag visited the Middle East before becoming radicalized. Haven't you noticed how many young people are indocrinated by Islam and ISIS?
     
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