ISO the Kalashnikov 0f 1911s

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:rolleyes: Come on people.. A chinese 1911?:uhoh: That goes against everything the 1911 represents.
 
What exactly is it that a 1911 represents that would be tarnished by an exact copy of the original being made in a foreign country?

Dependability and accuracy certainly are not among those things.

Perhaps America's arrogant and a unrealistic belief of long past quality of workmanship being inextricably linked to the made in America sign would be hurt a little but that's about it

Of all your quips about owning a Norinco I have not heard any first hand evaluations of the gun coming from you, why is that?
 
DONT GET THE NORICO... Have some PRIDE. There is nothing worse than chinese rip off 1911.

Quoted as typed on a computer with Chinese components.

Cue the Lee Greenwood! :evil:
 
I have nothing against owning products and firearms made in other countrys. They have good quality and craftsmanship (most of the time). But buying a 1911 made in china takes a quality american firearm and turns it into a cheapo mass production chinese firearm made by communtist slaves from low quality steel and covered in a poor finish .
 
doubleg,

You are seriously misinformed, misguided, and obviously base your opinion on a lack of owning a norinco.

We live in global society. China has embraced capitalism, quite successfully I might add. To NOT support the norinco is to tell the Chinese they are not on the road to capitalism.

Grow up :)
 
Just because i talk smack on norico's does not mean I have never owned them or had experience with them.;) And last time I checked China was still governed by sociolists.
 
But buying a 1911 made in china takes a quality american firearm and turns it into a cheapo mass production chinese firearm made by communtist slaves from low quality steel and covered in a poor finish .

I'm sorry, but this statement pretty much proves that you really don't know the truth about Norincos. Read the second post on this thread about the quality of Norinco steel:

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=15245
 
Norinco not only use better material on the 1911 than most US manufacturers, but today China are more capitalistic than we are. In China, if you are lazy and don't work, you starve to death. If you are sick and have no money, don't even think about going to the hospital, they won't admit you. They have no government handout, no social security, the harder you work the more money you earn. The Chinese government was never really true communtist anyway, it is more like a dictatorship, but I won't go into it here that belongs to another forum.
 
Gun for gun and not based on country manufacturer NORCs are top performers and their worth every buck. However, we do have some consumers in the 1911 market who equate the NORC to China being a communist country, slave laborers, etc.

I just bought a CANON digital camera which I thought is a Japanese brand only to find under its made in China :confused:
 
The Norinco Buisiness Model

"Selling low-tech weapons to our enemy to fund the purchase of high-tech weapons from our enemy, the better to kill our enemy in the future."

At least that's what it was when their small arms were being imported here. That's just too much of an unpleasant irony for me. Still, I recognize that the guns are good (guilty of having purchased two Norinco SKS's years ago), and no further damage can be done by trading in what's already here.

Oh, and don't make the mistake of calling China's economy "capitalist." Sure, there's a lot of activity that looks like capitalism over there, but you can't have capitalism without ownership. Every large domestic industry, and every foreign business, is partially owned by the People's Liberation Army, through one of its subsidiaries. And the government frequently takes full ownership of companies and individual assets, just to remind people that they're still in control.
 
I'll throw in my vote for Firestorm, sinc no one's said it and I LOVE mine.Never had a single problem with it in 4 years and I don't know how many rounds, but its A LOT.
 
Oh, and don't make the mistake of calling China's economy "capitalist." Sure, there's a lot of activity that looks like capitalism over there, but you can't have capitalism without ownership. Every large domestic industry, and every foreign business, is partially owned by the People's Liberation Army, through one of its subsidiaries. And the government frequently takes full ownership of companies and individual assets, just to remind people that they're still in control.
Guncrazy what do you mean by no ownership in China, where are you getting your info from, mind pointing that out. I own a company that own and operate a cabinet factory in China. The factory is 100% own by my company in the U.S. not joint venture with anyone in China, and most of my suppliers in China are privately own and operate too.

How about a brand new Taurus PT-1911 for about $100 more than a used Nork. You get a ambi safety, combat hammer, adjustable speed trigger, forged frame and slide, and a life time warranty.
 
Abarth--The situation I described with JV companies is the way things were explained to me in '96. I actually lived there from '96 to '98. Admittedly, my info regarding the way business is conducted in China may be out of date, and if so, mea culpa. It certainly wouldn't surprise me, considering how fast things continue to change over there.

However, although I don't have time to debate it (packing for vacation right now), I will stand by my assertion that the People's Liberation Army considers the US to be a likely adversary, and is doing its damndest to be a serious contender when the interests of our nations eventually collide. Part of this preparation is the entry into business ventures which not only create revenue (which is used to buy arms and fund R&D of better weapons), but will also give China access to advanced electronics and computer technology, parts and manufacturing capacity.

Yes, it's damn near impossible to live these days without needing to use something made in China. (Hell, my wife was made in China ;) ). And it's likely that at least a tiny fraction of the money you spend on those products goes to support Chinese defense industries. There's really not much any of us can do about it now, and I don't worry about it. But, and this is just my personal preference, I don't want to purchase new-import Chinese weapons, as in my mind, this directly supports the PLA, as Norinco is a PLA-owned industry.
 
Realize that some of it will just boil down to luck as well. You can improve your odds by taking some of the advice in this thread, but that doesn't come with a guarantee. I owned a Springfield Mil-Spec and had no trouble with it. I now own a S&W 1911 and have also put thousands of rounds through it with no failures whatsoever, even when running it dirty. Luck? Maybe... but I rather think S&W is another company to look at for a reliable 1911, although not exactly inexpensive. But reasonable I think.
 
I don't want to purchase new-import Chinese weapons, as in my mind, this directly supports the PLA, as Norinco is a PLA-owned industry.
Norinco is funny that way, many of the executives are PLA officers. There are many other businesses that are PLA owned and operated.

The manufacturing techniques used for 1911s are outdated so a competitively priced pistol can only be made in third world economic conditions or by updating the manfacturing techniques up to and including changing the design (MIM parts, non-standard parts, etc). i think the real choice is norinco or sistema.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_People's_Liberation_Army
wikipedia said:
During the 1980s and 1990s, the PLA became extensively involved in creating a business empire including companies in areas not normally associated with the military (i.e., travel and real estate). Much of the motivation for this was to supplement the PLA's normal budget, whose growth was restricted. Chairman Mao's belief that people and groups should be self-sufficient also played a role in the PLA's varied business interests. In the early 1990s, the leadership of the Communist Party and the high command of the PLA became alarmed that these business transactions were in conflict with the PLA's military mission. The business interests of the PLA were eroding military discipline, and there were reports of corruption resulting from the PLA businesses. As a result, the PLA was ordered to spin off its companies. Typically, the actual management of the companies did not change, but the officers involved were retired from active duty within the PLA and the companies were given private boards of retired PLA officers. Military units were compensated for the loss of profitable businesses with increased state funding.
 
Let me cast another vote for a Norinco 1911-A1. I picked one up for around $400 a few years back and it has been increadible. It is solid forged steel so it is very durable and as for accuracy, its stock barrel shoots just as well as my Kimbers and Springfield "loaded." I have also seen many Norinco owners claim accuracy from their stock Norinco barrel is on par with $2500+ custom built 1911s they own(ed)/have fired. From what I have seen from my own Norinco, I definitely believe them.


doubleg said:
But buying a 1911 made in china takes a quality american firearm and turns it into a cheapo mass production chinese firearm made by communtist slaves from low quality steel and covered in a poor finish .

Let me say that I think others are dead on, that you know absolutley nothing about the REAL quality of a Norinco 1911. You are entitled to dislike them because they are foreign made and you feel that is an insult to what a 1911 means to you, but to blindly claim they are are of inferior quality for such reason truley shows your ignorance. Just take a look at Wilson Combat's FAQ page. The Norinco is one only six non-Wilson 1911 platforms that Wilson will do custom work on. But I guess you know more that Wilsons own master gunsmiths.

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/faq_handgun.htm

What pistols do you work on?

We will work on Springfield Armory, Colt, Norinco, Wilson Combat, Kimber, Strayer Tripp, and Strayer Voight pistols.

We will not work on firearms that have been modified by anyone other than Wilson Combat® Custom Shop.
 
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Daysleeprx,

Found an excellent condition norc with an aftermarket adjustable aluminum trigger and cocobolo grip panels for $325.00.

The original parts will also be included. Yoa-zaa!!
 
The real deal is obviously a WW2 vintage Colt, Remington Rand or Ithica... realistically however a Norinco, Argentine Systema or a new Spingfield 'mil spec' model is your best bet.

I've heard nothing but praise about the Norincos, and after shooting one side by side with a Colt, well the pistol wasn't lacking in accuracy or reliability, it was definitely less finicky about magazines.
 
Most negative comments you'll hear about NORC 1911s:

Finish is crap - true
Machining is rough - very true (both internals and externals)
Crappy trigger - true -
Grip screw bushings - are one of a kind :mad: - true
Some are loose and some are tight - true - (I own three)

Positive comments:

Steel used and the hardening process - probably the best steel ever in the 1911s
Utterly reliable out of the box - very true - some may require cleaning prior to 1st shot to remove grease and gum and all that and some are clean as water.
 
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