Israeli Ruger?

[WestKentucky]

I was creatively expending time at work yesterday and stumbled across a news story about “The Ruger” being used by IDF forces. I was intrigued enough to read the following article.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ha...-killed-four-palestinians-since-may-1.9956898

That is a very slick rifle and one I would love to own. It’s hard for me to imagine a modern nation, and a close ally of the USA openly using an actual firearm as a form of crowd control against civilians. Apparently kneecapping civilians is OK over there… I was not at all aware of the 10/22 being in military use in Israel or anywhere else for that matter as anything more than a training rifle. I thought it may be of interest to folks here.

 

[someguy2800]

Wow, very interesting

 

[Alaskan Ironworker]

They seem oddly obsessed with the fact that it is a ruger, and not so much about the human rights violation. Does it really make a difference what brand of rifle it is?

 

[Barbaroja]

Very strangely written article.

 

[jonnyc]

A well-placed .22 round can be a lot less-lethal than a sling or arm thrown rock or a Molotov cocktail.

 

[GEM]

The use of the 10/22 for that role has been reported before. Interestingly (bad choice of word), there is a move in some police circles to train officers to shoot to incapacitate. https://www.police1.com/police-trai...oot-to-incapacitate-program-82YJIpU2MUoRvuqV/

The idea is not new. It is usually opposed here. If officers shot to the legs with 9mm or greater rounds, the chance of fatal injuries increases.

 

[Jim Watson]

I did not want to subscribe to read the rest of the piece, but as said, this is SOP for Israeli anti-mob action.
I know Jeff Cooper and John W. Campbell thought it a reasonable approach a long time ago.

Police being told to "shoot to incapacitate" a violent felon is a different thing. Both the crook and the cop are at greater risk.
Back in the late 20th, there was a blurb in The Handgunner, Ltd. showing an alleged Austrian police training target with the scoring rings centered on the bent knee of a running suspect.

 

[DukeConnor]

By the looks of the other articles this appears to be a anti-israel site.

 

[cslinger]

Non lethal…….”you keep using that word but I don’t think you know what it means”

Well I guess a .22 to the legs or extremities is a fairly succinct way to communicate you want any shenanigans to stop.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I remember hearing something in the military about riot control training.

In the US, tennis balls are used to simulate rocks being thrown at the riot control trainees.

In Israeli riot control training, they throw rocks.

 

[12Bravo20]

The Israelis have been using the 10/22 for quite some time and employ it as an urban sniper rifle too.

 

[GEM]

The site is a left leaning Israeli site.

 

[gotboostvr]

Using 22's for crowd control is nothing new. Apparently here in the US, we had a similar idea back in the 60's.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-180

Designed with prison riots in mind.

 

[Dunross]

Haaretz is a major left-leaning newspaper in Israel akin to the way the New York Times is a left-leaning paper in the United States.

The Israelis have been sniping people with 22lr for years. This is not a new thing. Making a big deal out of the rifles being made by Ruger is new (to me), but otherwise it's been known for quite a while now.

This thread is almost certainly going to devolve into Israeli/Palestinian politics which is not what we're about here in my opinion.

 

[entropy]

They also use them for popping street lights and such on raids.

I always thought this might be a handy little rifle;



But now I think I'd just do it with a Charger, brace and a can. Maybe skip the can.

 

[shoobe01]

The IDF (and police, paramilitaries?) have been using wood stocked 10/22s with suppressors mostly, for the typical things some agencies use them for even CONUS: lights, cameras, power systems, dogs. Over time they've expanded that to a sorta, kinda, weirdly "reduced from full rifles" lethality, though not at all in the same ballpark as LL in the sense of beanbags.

By 2015 they had acquired SR-22s, the 10/22 in the tactical stock, without suppressors apparently, for this purpose as well.



From a contemporary TFB article but apparently still true:

"The Ruger" as they call it is used by the IDF for …

• Killing dogs in the vicinity of a target
• Injuring leaders of violent demonstrations or violent participants of a violent demonstration.
• The IDF uses it as a mid-range system that is “less lethal than” military caliber rifles (5.56mm/7.62mm) and capable of hurting severely enough to stop them using committing violence (throwing rocks or molotov cocktails).
• Can be used more accuracy at distances, unlike a rubber bullet or baton round.
• It is used when it is not safe enough to get close enough to use a rubber bullet or baton round.

Here's supposedly the relevant section of IDF regulations on the use of this weapon system saying it is a lethal system...

• 

But the bad auto translator has it being a discussion of a specific case without context so, while clear enough it is not a "regulation" as I'd consider it. Cleaned a bit and cut to the relevant section in the middle:

"A Ruger type I rifle or similar caliber weapon (0.22 inches) is not considered a dispersal device but as such it can only be used in a general strike. Open fire permits the use of live fire."



Yes, as with many conflicts, but especially this long-ongoing one, EVERYONE has a strong political bent to their reporting and far too many otherwise well-informed sources (good photos, see the actions) are super "murder-gun by occupying force" so you have to read several articles about everything, read between the lines, if you are just trying to understand equipment and tactics.

 

[borrowedtime69]

I saw an article on this usage back in the late 90's. I heard years later that they had stopped this usage because it wasn't as non-lethal as they thought. Maybe they never quit or they took up usage again in these troubled times.

 

[d2wing]

In that vein, Winchester 74's were used by Brittan in WW 2. They were equipped with silencers originally intended for the SAS they were issued to home guard for for defense and sniper use in case of invasion.

 

[1942bull]

The first instance of a military use of a Ruger, as far as I know, was the Mac/MK1. It was a Ruger Standard with 7” barrel and added suppressor which was not greater diameter that the barrel. As some here know I was a combat photographer in Nam. I was covering a Force Recon team prepping for a mission. Two of the Marines were carrying pistols I had never seen. I asked about them. I was told they were 22LR suppressed pistols that they used to pick off sentries, guards, etc. I saw them on a few separate occasions. I just looked the up on the a internet. Found only one article at:
http://smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1873
It is difficult to see but the suppressor is an integral part of the barrel. If you look at the small image gallery on the webpage you can see a photo that shows the gun so that the dividing line of the suppressor is visible.

I also once one that had a scope attached. The recon Marine carrying it told me that Marine armorers had fitted the scope to it. I asked why? He answered:
“We’re supposed to infiltrate a local area and assinate a NVA colonel quartered there. I have no idea how that went. I have never been able to find a photo of a MK1 with a scope on it.

 

[12Bravo20]

Marine Force Recon Army Special Forces and Navy Seals used all kinds of weird/different weapons during the Vietnam War. And they still have and use different weapons. Special Operations are not limited on the type of firearms they can use like regular forces are.

I got to play around in the 10th Special Forces Group arms room while I was stationed at Ft Devens, Ma in 1991. They had quite to collection of American and foreign weapons at their disposal.

 

[Varminterror]

Interesting that we’ve transitioned in the US to stop calling tasers, pepper pellet paintball guns, and rubber bullets/bean bags “non-lethal” to accepting and acknowledging the risk by calling them now “less lethal,” whereas those BMF’s in Israel get to call a 22LR a “less lethal” weapon...

If you live in a world where you know your police use 22LR firearms for riot control, with procedure to shoot at your legs... well...

“Run up, get done up...”

 

[Jim Watson]

Problem is, it does not seem to slow down their rioters much.

Will we get to the recommendations of Space Viking Lucas Trask? "Put up air cars with machine guns and draw a dead line."

 

[MedWheeler]

Subscriber-only content that appears to lean anti-Israel. In the preview portion, a lot of emphasis is made on the fact that the rifle is semi-automatic and a Ruger. The writer clearly wants to draw in the reader by implying an "assault rifle" or similar. How far into the article does the .22LR caliber come up?

Old news, anyway...

 

[Terry G]

Using 22's for crowd control is nothing new. Apparently here in the US, we had a similar idea back in the 60's.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-180

Designed with prison riots in mind.

I got to fire one of these when I was a rookie Federal LEO. Every Federal Prison except for camps had a couple. They were never used and they quietly disappeared. But they were fun!! Spewing out those .22 LR at I don't know how many per second. Shooting to wound? No way! You touched the trigger your target (Red Laser sight}) had a half a dozen or more rounds in it.

 

[GEM]

I've seen an integral suppressor, full auto 10/22. That would be fun to own once Scotus frees us from onerous gun laws (wait for it!). It was a really cool gun.