Quantcast

It’s not over until it’s over

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Jeff White, Sep 15, 2020.

  1. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    28,207
    Location:
    Alma Illinois
    Pizza delivery driver is lured into an ambush, kills one perp with his CCW and is killed by the perp’s female accomplice who he apparently didn’t see as a threat:


    Girl, 17, 'shoots new father to death after he delivered a pizza'


    https://mol.im/a/8734251


    You have to assume anyone with the assailant is also a threat.....
     
  2. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,750
    Location:
    Big Sky Country
    A tragic event, and a waste. It shows a blind spot that many men have too; not seeing women as being capable of violence.
     
  3. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,708
    Location:
    Free State USA
    Article said he had a 38 in his pocket with the rounds fired.
    Is this an example of where 5 rounds wasn't enough?

    Never mind, wouldn't matter, would be rationalized away as inapplicable because they aint a pizza delivery guy. ;)
     
  4. dog gone it

    dog gone it Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    TN
    So she couldnt accept, that the pizza guy killed her boyfriend in self defense, and feel remorse from the consequences, oh heavens no. Its a shame he wasnt able to defend himself against her as well. Sad
     
    JeffG, Hartkopf and scaatylobo like this.
  5. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    6,593
    Location:
    Flatlandistan
    Part of our training was after a shooting to visually scan the area before holstering. Also, to reload if necessary and never holster an empty gun.

    Obviously I don't know the circumstances in this particular incident, or if the assailant was even in sight or close proximity before she approached him.

    Sad so many lives destroyed over pizza money.
     
    T_Walker and Darkhorse like this.
  6. defjon

    defjon Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    330
    This is heartbreaking.

    If I'm being honest, I think I would hesitate firing on an armed 17 year old female in self defense.

    It's a story, as mentioned above, that reminds you of the training to reload and reasses.

    In ccw they told us, the bad guy might have friends on the scene. Disarm when the calvary comes and the scene is secure.
     
    Phaedrus/69 likes this.
  7. defjon

    defjon Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    330
    One other thing I was thinking about, in my ccw class the instructor said leave the scene and call 911 if you have to.

    Number one thing is going home alive, you can leave and call and explain you left due to safety concerns.

    A final thought, look at concealed carry insurance.

    Imagine if he shot the man attempting to rob him, and also shot the woman who was pulling the 9mm on him.

    Not sure what the DA in the area would do but shooting a 17 year old no matter how armed is likely to get you into rough legal waters.

    You don't want to face that alone.
     
    Ernie Bass likes this.
  8. defjon

    defjon Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    330
    (as opposed to staying at the scene and telling the neighbors to call police). It's monday morning qb I know.. Just, what a sad case.
     
  9. Outlaw75

    Outlaw75 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    302
    Location:
    Glendale, AZ
    Bad situation. Looks like he shot the boyfriend, then pocketed the revolver and exited the house. On the way he stopped to tell one of the neighbors what happened, that's when she came out of the house and shot him.

    Guess the lesson here is don't turn your back on anyone in a situation like this and if you have to, get away from the scene as fast as you can.

    https://www.wthr.com/article/news/c...iver/531-37e19b48-34b1-4972-8968-e0ad0e0797b1
     
    T_Walker and defjon like this.
  10. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,250
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    I would have never guessed that woman to be 17, if that matters.
    To be clear, I carry a gun that holds 15 rds most of the time, but in this case, given that the gun was in his pocket when he was shot, it wouldn't have mattered if it was a M249 with an 800 round belt.
     
    Phaedrus/69 likes this.
  11. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    7,932
    Location:
    WNY
    Good reason why if you can get it, quality FOF is quite useful. In one exercise, I became engaged with a robber hitting a jewelry store. Compliance wasn't in the cards so I 'shot' him. Then, bam, bam in my back (sims). The quiet blond was a secret accomplish and she shot me. Now, I did shoot her and we had a debate whether I would have been able to, given her hits. I told her that was rude to shoot me. She said I deserved it because in another run, she was being accosted by her abusive SO and I just fled the scene and called the cops.

    Another excercise, guy in front of me in 7/11 ish line shoots the clerk. Well, I take him down with gusto and tell him not to move. His hidden partner tells me to get off him. I shoot him. He shoots back, misses. General gun fight breaks out from other armed folks in the store. Shows you that when the fight starts, everyone can lose.

    To Jeff's point, even folks who don't seem related to the assailant can be an ally. Also, good FOF is a reality check. Getting a little too old for it , though. You do bleed and bruise up quite a bit. Makes for fun talk in the locker room. Did you fall down, you old geezer? No, crawling out of a car on the the ground, etc. Got whacked in knife class, that's why the orthopedic rig on my arm.
     
    bearcreek and Phaedrus/69 like this.
  12. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    6,178
    Location:
    Rural, far beyond the beltway, Northern Virginia,
    I recall reading a couple of years ago about a guy who was committing an armed robbery in a store (a Walmart?) and a CCW guy engaged & shot him ... only to be shot in the back by the Perp's girlfriend who had entered the store separately and was standing alone.
     
  13. Outlaw75

    Outlaw75 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    302
    Location:
    Glendale, AZ
    That was the CiCi's Pizza shooting in Las Vegas back in 2014. Husband and wife shot two LV cops then fled into a Walmart and one of the customers shot the husband. The wife was trailing a bit behind and shot the customer.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Las_Vegas_shootings
     
    GBExpat likes this.
  14. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    6,178
    Location:
    Rural, far beyond the beltway, Northern Virginia,
    Interesting.

    All I ever read was the Walmart part. Apparently, when that was written the CiCi's Pizza connection had not been made yet.

    Thanks! :)
     
    Outlaw75 likes this.
  15. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,698
    Location:
    Colorado
    Active Self Protection CiCi's /Walmart shooting.

     
  16. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,708
    Location:
    Free State USA
    [​IMG]
     
    bearcreek likes this.
  17. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,982
    Location:
    South Eastern Illinois
    The instructor in our combat classes insisted on a 360 degree visual check before reholstering. It didn't matter your position or situation.
    It felt odd at the range, but he instilled the importance.
     
  18. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2020
    Messages:
    802
    Location:
    South central Ohio
    That's a tough one. We all hope to be fully prepared for whatever situation arises but that's a variable not many people I know would account for. Guy may have had no clue the girl was on the premises.
     
    qwert65 likes this.
  19. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    11,020
    It is prudent to always, always suspect that a violent criminal may well have at least one accomplice.
     
  20. Ernie Bass

    Ernie Bass Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2019
    Messages:
    920
    Location:
    No Town N.C.
    Safer ways to make a living than being a Pizza delivery driver. And with so many restaurants etc. now doing so much home delivery due to the virus, sure makes a whole lot of people perfect targets.Maybe defense class's should incorporate safety classes specific to delivery drivers. For both the Employees and Employers.
    Going to a strange door, both hands needed to deliver the Pizza etc. How does one prepare for a attack?
     
    mjsdwash likes this.
  21. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,698
    Location:
    Colorado

    Tweakers hunt in packs
     
  22. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,554
    it was a tire iron, or fish bat for most of the guys I worked with, held under the bag. Lots of pizza guys I know have felony records and that limits their options. Several had guns... I worked at an independent place, and suspicious calls got a driver and a passenger, and that helped. But you'll never see that at a minimum-wage chain. There was a similar incident about 4 blocks outside our delivery area where a driver shot someone and ran. Luckily, incidents were rare, and I only know of one time where it came down to more than body language and tone. The driver won with his tire wrench.
     
    Ernie Bass likes this.
  23. JERRY

    JERRY Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    Messages:
    2,949
    way back when.... a trooper only wore the front panel of his vest because it was hot and he said he wasn't going to turn his back on anyone anyway.... he later arrested a scrote in a rest area, and while escorting his arrestee to his cruiser, the scote's female passenger in the car he was removed from fired three rounds of .25 acp into said trooper's back. he survived, lesson learned.
     
  24. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    15,888
    Chilling.

    Very important. Every concealed carrier should watch this video. Thank you for posting it. And thank you to Jeff for starting the thread with the pizza delivery incident which had a similar result.
     
    Phaedrus/69 likes this.
  25. JERRY

    JERRY Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    Messages:
    2,949
    word to the wise, when a scrote starts yelling and even fires a gun off, those acting like its no big deal are prolly with said scrote.
     
    old lady new shooter likes this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice