It's 159,000,000 rounds

[BSA1]

Like many gun owners I have read articles about the massive ammunition purchases being reported by The Department of Homeland Security. I recently wrote to my Representative Mike Pompeo (R-KS), requesting information about the amount of ammunition purchased by the DHS.

According to information I received today from his office the DHS purchased 84,000,000 rounds in 2013 and 75,000,000 rounds in 2014 for a total of 159,000,000 rounds.

From 2008 – 2015 the DHS have purchased an average of 1.9 million rounds a year.

Hopefully the mods will leave this topic up as it is based on information directly from my Representatives Office in D.C.

 

[Sam Cade]

http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public...ecord_id=79d1d14e-ad5a-4b44-ab88-1fd6af1bb51e



I'm going to wrap up this thread.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

That's one hundred fifty nine MILLION rounds of ammo. If DHS is anything like the old Customs Service, INS and Border Patrol I suspect a lot of those rounds will make it to the agents homes and will filter down to the local gun shops and gun shows. Call it perks of the job if you will.

Does anyone really know how many DHS agents actually carry firearms or how many employees DHS really has?

 

[Sam1911]

Purchased to have on-hand, or has an IDIQ contract for? Does your rep's office know the difference?

 

[Sam Cade]

Does anyone really know how many DHS agents actually carry firearms or how many employees DHS really has?

It's a matter of public record.

I've seen figures that estimate the ammunition training requirements (for the DHS) at in excess of 100,000,000 per annum.

To put things in perspective, if every FBI special agent shoots their 60 round qualifier twice that is nearly 2,000,0000 rounds.

 

[Sam Cade]

Does anyone really know how many DHS agents actually carry firearms or how many employees DHS really has?

A quick google gives me an estimated 160,000 armed DHS personnel.

 

[Old Dog]

Anyone who get their panties a'twist because of the amount of ammo DHS is (allegedly) ordering ... has never worked for the government.

Every week, when I visit our armory, I am amazed at the ammunition on pallets stacked to the red lines on the wall ... over my head. It's a beautiful thing. And we're always ordering more ...

 

[george29]

So if I'm reading this correctly, this is how it's always been, so my question is, why the shortage?

 

[Sam1911]

so my question is, why the shortage?

AAAaaargh. Seriously? How many more threads on that do we need? Let's not go down that road one more time.

 

[Sam Cade]

why the shortage?

As I understand it:
Consumer demand has increased and has remained elevated for an abnormally long time.

Manufacturers are running at near peak so the supply can't increase without huge capital investment by those manufacturers. A capital investment that may be wasted if consumer demand drops back to previous levels.

 

[nathan]

Thus leaving .22 LR production in the pits. Theres more money in govt contracts paid by the taxpayers.

 

[Sam Cade]

Theres more money in govt contracts paid by the taxpayers.

Sure... but government consumption of small arms ammunition is small fry.

To wit:

This translates to the Department of Homeland Security affecting 1.6% of the market share of ammunition domestically produced.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/04/The-Great-DHS-Ammunition-Stockpile-Myth

 

[hso]

this is how it's always been, so my question is, why the shortage?

I never used to see or hear people circling retailers like I have the past couple of years. Folks that might buy a box bury bricks and if you can buy 3 of anything (or more) they do. They then put it back in the garage and continue to hunt for more. Even people who drop in for other reasons are checking for ammo and buying where they'd have just walked out with a couple of pairs of socks and some jerky. All that new demand depletes inventory.

Manufacturers tell us they're producing as much as they can and they're shipping to retailers (straight from the manufacturers' mouths).

The obsession with ammunition is like the obsession with Beanie Babies, wholly based on popular demand and driven by the frenzy to buy.

 

[BSA1]

Sam1911,

I have no idea what he knows. I quizzed the staffer closely about the differences reported in the media and his figures.

Sam Cade,

Well at least his numbers for 2013 & 2014 agree with yours. I don't know where he got the yearly average though. With your permission I would like to print off the bar chart.

Old Dog,

As a retired Government person I don't think it is possible to explain on budgeting works to the average person.

 

[hammerklavier]

Their cost has gone up from 21 cents per round to 30 cents per round.

 

[itsa pain]

It seems like if the gov't orders 5 trillion rounds it will still be said it has nothing to do with the shortage. I find it hard to understand that type of reasoning. Just like the military burning and wasting the most oil in the world has nothing to do with cost and supply of fuel. Sometimes you would think that this site is being monitored and anything said negative is squashed

 

[george29]

AAAaaargh. Seriously? How many more threads on that do we need? Let's not go down that road one more time.

Now, now, moderators aren't allowed to be emotional.
This is a totally different because someone who works for .gov says .gov always bought at these levels so if it's not DHS then why oh why aren't we seeing ammo? Legitimate question so don't Aaaaargh the question.

 

[Al Thompson]

I work for a LGS and I have folks buying ammo for guns they don't even own. I've been working at LGSs since the '80's and never has the average demand been greater. Never.

 

[fastbolt]

...
The obsession with ammunition is like the obsession with Beanie Babies, wholly based on popular demand and driven by the frenzy to buy.

Nicely stated.

Folks, DHS is a huge umbrella agency in which there are a lot of armed folks. Even with minimal shooting/training occurring, they're going to burn through a lot more ammo than other civilian fed agencies.

It's unsurprising that many private citizens may lack some knowledge and experience from which to develop a relevant perspective regarding ammunition consumption of LE, and especially large LE, but it needn't become a tinfoil moment.

If anything, I came across a recent press release indicating the expected ammunition procurement for DHS (under their ongoing contract) for 2014 is going to be even less than last year. Doesn't really make for paranoia-based news spin, though.

 

[george29]

I gotta say, paranoia or not, I'm one of the few that NEVER see ammo on the shelves at Walmart, EVER! Even when I do see ammo at different places the calibers I still never see are .22, .380, .38 and .357. For that matter I also don't see .32 but that concerns me less (on a personal level).
What I would like to know is who are the @$$40l&S buying at these ridiculous prices? I won't buy a brick at today's prices and yet someone is. I'm totally flummoxed by anyone that would buy a brick at over $20 even at today's prices.

 

[Hardtarget]

I know a lady that works for DHS. She gets two boxes of S&W .40 per month. she will MAYBE shoot a box per year. That's not much practice, is it.

Mark

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

Back in the day Customs and INS agents were issued 2 boxes of ammo per month. They didn't have to shoot it and it was not uncommon for the ammo to pile up on their desks and at some point they just took it home, gave it away or sold it. I'm sure that trend continues to this very day. Some things never change.

 

[Sam Cade]

I know a lady that works for DHS. She gets two boxes of S&W .40 per month.

192,000,000 rounds a year if all the DHS armed personnel received the same ammo allowance as your acquaintance.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

It's usually left up to the range officer as to how much ammo is given out. It was common practice back in the day when Customs, Border Patrol and INS were separate to take whatever old ammo left over from the previous contract to the "dump" or the local gun store or home. The abuse was criminal if you ask me. I saw Customs agents homes that had so much ammo from .38 to .45 and .223 that you folks would not believe.

 

[Vol46]

I like the Beanie Baby analogy.