It's not "just a movie" or "just entertainment" - it is powerful propaganda

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You are totally correct. That being said, the last movie that I went to see was almost 15 years ago, "Necessary Roughness" (really sucked but the future wife and I enjoyed it) have not been back to a movie theatre since then (they all eventually make it to TV one day) If we as a society would stand together and buck the system, these problems would eventually go away. I know plenty of people who are hard core right wingers who walk it and talk it but they don't shop it. They will spend money on Hollywood made movies and financially support things they speak out against. I don't get it. I know that me personally not spending 40 bucks at the movie theatre will not make a differance but what if we all did this..........? ( cant a guy dream):)
 
Joe Demko said:
Sure didn't. Here's the flaw in your "plan": coming here_or to similar places_to "denounce" anti-gun movies/celebrities/authors/et. al. is indistinguishable from impotent ranting. The +1's and "F*** yeah!" posts you collect here may make you feel like you are doing something, but you aren't. The people here largely already agree with you. What did you have in mind that would effect either the antis themselves or the great mass of people who just don't care about guns one way or the other? Fiery rhetoric and heartfelt oratory is a foot deep on the ground at every gunboard. Simply adding to that does nothing to advance your cause.

You will notice that I mostly started this thread for the purpose of dispelling the idea put forth by people on this board that "entertainment doesn't matter." That in itself is an important thing to do, because the more people understand that, the fewer victories the anti-gun media will be able to score. For instance, maybe some of the people here on this forum saying "it's just entertainment" wouldn't take the time to pause a movie that their kid is watching and point out some anti-gun message. Say your kids, and your kids' friends (whose parents are antis) are sitting around watching a movie where there's some anti message. If "it's just a movie," then you might let it slide. If you realize how incredibly IMPORTANT movies are in shaping kids' perceptions, then you'll pause the movie and say, "hey, sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to point out that this is incorrect." That will help not only your own kid but the friends who don't have the benefit of being raised by pro-gun parents.

That's just ONE example of how this is not just "preaching to the choir" because there are people here on this very forum who seem to think that movies and TV are not important. My main goal is to help THOSE people understand how it is important.

You really still don't understand what I'm getting at? Then there's nothing else I can say. Go on and think whatever you want to.
 
Some people use free speech just like others use the second amendment. I applaud Golden Hound for his efforts to bring to light the actions of Hollywood.

Silence hurts our cause and those who would shut up the truth are unworthing of the men who died to defend it.

jj
 
I hate to say it...

But gun forums, (including this one) are full of closed minded folks. There are virtually no threads involving "other possibilities" of an issue, without several posts saying "conspiracy", "tinfoil hat", "doesn't matter" and other statements discounting anything that doesn't fit their world view.

This forum should be open to discourse even when you disagree.Most of the membership here favors private gun rights, that's our common ground. In this country we used to disagree without animosity. It seems we are too willing to fall into a "Us Vs. Them" mentality which has divided this country into left and right, rich and poor etc.

There needs to be more leeway in supporting a free exchange of ideas here. We spend too much time trying to tear ideas down instead of discussing them or being open to them.

There are conspiracies afoot in America, some people just call them a plan or an agenda, but be assured they exist. If I'm wrong, lot's of us are wasting our money supporting the NRA or our political party...
 
There needs to be more leeway in supporting a free exchange of ideas here. We spend too much time trying to tear ideas down instead of discussing them or being open to them.


EEERRRRR AAAAHHHH maybe the truth isn't considered "high road". Maybe it's all just about the guns you own and has nothing to do with the life we live as gun owners.

jj
 
So how is it that THR members -- or at least the ones that agree with "Golden Hound" -- are able to see through the "anti-gun lies" presented in Simpsons and Family Guy, but nobody else can?

That's the trouble with the OP's post: its basic premise is that everyone but us is stupid. Good luck winning support with that one.
 
I would submit that it only really matters insofar as the person who is media illiterate is more vulnerable to being influenced by messages in all kinds of media.

Just because the folks can use media and technology doesn't mean they are effective at critically analyzing and evaluating the messages they receive. One needs a set of skills to ask important questions about what they watch, see, listen to and read. Often called media literacy, these skills include the ability to critically analyze media messages and the ability to use different kinds of communication technologies for self-expression and communication.
 
So how is it that THR members -- or at least the ones that agree with "Golden Hound" -- are able to see through the "anti-gun lies" presented in Simpsons and Family Guy, but nobody else can?

That's the trouble with the OP's post: its basic premise is that everyone but us is stupid. Good luck winning support with that one.
Uh, it's very simple, really. We know about guns. Most people don't. That's a very basic but very important part of the whole issue.

If someone in a movie says a Glock can pass through metal detectors, WE KNOW that it's not true. They don't. If someone in a movie says that the 7.62x39 round is a cop killer bullet, we know this isn't true. They don't. If someone in a movie says that the Barret .50 is the preferred rifle of terrorists, we know this isn't true. They don't.

See where I'm going with this?

My basic premise isn't that everyone but us is stupid. It's that everyone but us (most people, anyway) is vulnerable to anti-gun lies because they don't know any better. Don't take my words and twist them into something else.
 
Short version: everyone is stupid but us.

We do have all the guns. Maybe we should start rounding folks up and sending them to reeducation camps?
 
Are you kidding me?

After what I just wrote, you're really going to say that again?

Could you please explain how you got that out of what I just typed above your last post?
 
.38 Special

It's simple, we see through the lies because we are educated and involved with the subject

Just like when my medical professionals watch medical shows and they pick out things the average Joe doesn't.
The average Joe isn't stupid, but after watching a few medical shows may think that in real life surgical masks are never worn in an O.R.,Or that you can place defibillator paddles almost anywhere on the chest and save a life etc.
 
Thank you.

There is a big difference between saying "everyone is stupid" and "most people are unaware of basic facts about guns and are therefore susceptible to gun-related myths and lies in popular entertainment." I did say the latter - I did not say the former. Don't put words in my mouth.
 
Are you kidding me?

After what I just wrote, you're really going to say that again?

Could you please explain how you got that out of what I just typed above your last post?

Note the time stamps. My post was in response to the one above yours.

It still applies, however, and I think the post by CentralTexas unwittingly illustrates my point: yes, a medical doctor may watch "House" and see all sorts of technical inaccuracies. But if you, the medical layman, watch "House" and believe that it represents the truth about the medical profession, are you "Unaware of the basic facts of medicine"? Or just stupid?

It's entertainment. If a person doesn't realize that, he's got more wrong than just "Unaware of the basic facts of ____ ". The argument that the average person gets his "facts" from a cartoon show is a pretty serious insult to his intelligence.
 
Why is so much $$$$ spent on advertising in the world?

Why do people fall for advertising? Cigarettes used to be touted for their health benefits with doctor testimonials. It's a matter of trust, gullibility, lack of education, lack of reasoning ability etc.
I think critical thinking is a lost art in the world. It's a CONSPIRACY of the government, politicians and big business. ;)
Whatever you think, I think that the majority of people fall for what they see and hear. Ask P.T. Barnum, the New York Times and Washington.
 
You may actually be right. But it still falls under the heading of "Everyone is stupid but us".
 
Ok, some shows are "Entertainment"

but what about "Documentaries" by Micheal Moore and Al Gore or ________?
WHat about A&E shows about weapons or history -that have their facts wrong, and seem to be educational programs? What about childrens education programs on TV and in school that teach fiction or bias as fact. What about college textbooks like one I own that uses the example of percentages of certain crimes linked to gunstore sales to teach Algebra?

It would seem to carry the argument to the extreme, every source is suspect.
 
I don't understand the "everyone is stupid but us" criticism .38 Special. It seems to me that the OP is actually saying that the people who manipulate the messaging in the media are smarter than we are, and we need to get hip to that fact.
 
It boils down to the argument that people are getting their facts from the Simpsons. Do any of you watch an animated cartoon show and believe that anything you see thereupon is factual? Would you go onto an online bulletin board for car enthusiasts and tell them that the Lamborghatti Fasterosa is the best car in the world because you saw it on the Simpsons? No? Then why assume that other people are so much dumber than you that they would?
 
It's entertainment. If a person doesn't realize that, he's got more wrong than just "Unaware of the basic facts of ____ ". The argument that the average person gets his "facts" from a cartoon show is a pretty serious insult to his intelligence.

Did I ever say I'm just talking about cartoon shows? I think they can be a powerful force but I'm also referring to movies, everything from dramas to thrillers and everything in between, as well as TV shows, particularly cop shows and action shows.

I can just about guarantee you that the average American spends more time watching television than he does reading the Encyclopedia Britannica. That would mean that, yes, the average person gets a large portion of his facts from television and movies. Not all of them, but a lot of them.
 
Actually I am saying

that people learn from cartoons. Political cartoons have always been used to sum up a larger picture into a one frame statement. I also find that the Simpsons and shows like Southpark (like them are not) are sometimes brilliant satire and a reflection of American thought to a large degree.
Getting a common sense message from a cartoon, a painting or whatever does happen. The Greeks had morality plays, our failing culture has the Simpsons.....
 
.38 Special said:
It boils down to the argument that people are getting their facts from the Simpsons. Do any of you watch an animated cartoon show and believe that anything you see thereupon is factual? Would you go onto an online bulletin board for car enthusiasts and tell them that the Lamborghatti Fasterosa is the best car in the world because you saw it on the Simpsons? No? Then why assume that other people are so much dumber than you that they would?

People do that all the time on this very board, and the philosophy boards I frequent, and the Harley boards I frequent, and the gamer boards I frequent, and so on and so on. BTW, why do you keep conflating ignorant with stupid? They mean different things.
 
Going to weigh in here

Have to hand it to Golden Hound for starting the conversation but I don't agree with the conclusion.

"Seriously, folks. If our movement is going to go anywhere - if this country is going to maintain our second amendment freedom instead of going the way of socialist Europe - we need to do two things. We need to try to get our message promoted in pop culture entertainment. And we need to vigorously fight against anti-gun propaganda in pop culture. Every time any form of pop culture entertainment promotes an anti-gun message - be it in a cartoon, a comedy, an action movie or a television show - we need to denounce it."

I respect the idea of more reasonable/rational firearm messaging from our entertainment industry but I don't see it actually happening. Main reason would be the folks who create the entertainment products just aren't the type (mostly -- exceptions have been noted in this thread) who would/could comment thoughtfully on guns and their place in our society.

I used to work in advertising/communications and had several clients in the entertainment industry. The people who make up the creative teams who actually produce and market these products are mostly artists, writers and communications specialists. In my experience, these folks are college educated, upper middle class, white and liberal. They are brought up to fear guns and that fear pervades the products they produce. I don't see this changing in fact I see it increasing.

I'm now in the aerospace industry doing the same kind of work. My colleagues are much more widely dispersed across the political spectrum and the messaging they produce reflects this diversity of opinion.

Put simply, you can't expect people who loathe guns to produce anything gun positive or even gun neutral. That may frustrate you but it's our reality.

My second gripe would be with the suggested action of denouncing any anti-gun rhetoric. Denounce where? Here on this (pro-gun) board? On the street corner? Take out an advertisement in the (anti-gun) New York Times? Any action you would take would pale in comparison with the deluge of miss information that's being produced right now by the entertainment industry.

So, what do do? Shoot often. Hunt if you can. Vote. And teach your children well.

-mud
 
BTW, why do you keep conflating ignorant with stupid? They mean different things.

I have intentionally avoided the word "ignorant". I am ignorant of all sorts of things. When I see a reference on a cartoon show about something of which I am ignorant, I realize that the reference may or may not be factually accurate. To do otherwise would be stupid, and to assume that other people do is to assume that they are stupid too.

<edit> I'd be impressed if you can find even a single instance on this board of someone seeing something on a cartoon show and believing it is factual.
 
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