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"It's safest to just give the robber what he wants..."

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by Green Lantern, May 16, 2007.

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  1. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Member

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    ...yeah, RIGHT! Here's just one example to throw in the face of those who say that you only INCREASE your chances of getting hurt by resisting the "bad guys."

    (Apologies if it's not directly gun-related)

    http://kotv.com/news/topstory/?id=127336
    My first thought was, "how on earth does a group of people just STAND there while another person is getting beaten, possibly to death? Er, sometimes I forget that there are smaller drugstores than where I work. ;)

    I mentioned a story that hit a lot "closer to home" in another thread where pharmacy employees were made to lie on the floor during a robbery, but that one turned out "OK," in that the perp just took the drugs and left.

    I don't think you can make a "hard-and-fast" rule for something like this, but it seems that when given the "lie on the floor" command might be the time to start thinking about fighting back...???

    (ESPECIALLY when it's from someone that you've actually "banned" from your pharmacy! Maybe the guys I work for are more forgiving than most, but it takes a **LOT** for things to get to that point in my experience!)

    ETA - when I speak of "fighting back," it's under the assumption that all the victims are obeying the "no-guns" policy of the workplace. Not the best odds if against an armed robber, but IMO much better than lying down and waiting for a bullet (or hammer) to the skull...!!!
     
  2. TheFederalistWeasel

    TheFederalistWeasel member

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    230 grains at the time!!!
     
  3. The Amigo

    The Amigo Member

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    Like Morpheus said in the MATRIX
     
  4. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    And I bet the robber didn't even have a CHL (Concealed Hammer License)
     
  5. pcf

    pcf Member

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    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/051707dnmetshooting.753a442f.html


    Excerpt:
     
  6. never_retreat

    never_retreat Member

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    In my professional medical opinion I think the attacker was deficient in the vitamin Pb. I would have given him a sufficient dose.
     
  7. Oana

    Oana Member

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    Now *this* is a prime example for my earlier question. *files away for future reference*

    I guess the general consensus is don't obey ALL of the robber's demands...

    Edited to add...why on earth did he attack the employees with a HAMMER when he had a gun??
     
  8. LanEvo`

    LanEvo` Member

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    From everything I've read and been taught, the odds of getting hurt skyrocket if you're: (a) moved to another, more remote location; or (b) forced to lie down, kneel, turn your back to the attacker, etc.

    I've been attacked a couple of times. Once, a couple of guys (armed with a knife and pepper spray) tried to pull me into an SUV. I had already made up my mind to resist in that situation. Even though I was unarmed, I dug in my heels and fought. It worked.

    Who knows what might have happened had I complied? Maybe nothing. Maybe ... ???
     
  9. BullfrogKen

    BullfrogKen Moderator Emeritus

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    Yes, if the VCA(s) order a victim to a more secluded location, or to perform an act that puts him, or her, in a position of greater helplessness . . . it probably means something bad is imminent.

    Most encounters with a mugging will conclude with the VCA(s) using force only to the extent it overwhelms and intimidates the victim into compliance with the demands. Occasionally it goes further. We can't be assured of any outcome, but developing skills to recognize when an encounter means more than your valuables will help in your decision.


    The clue they had to it likely going farther than mere robbery was the fact he was known to them, and was banned from the property the prior month. The force was more than instrumental . . . it was expressive.
     
  10. obxned

    obxned Member

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    yes, but what if he wants no witnesses???
     
  11. Chui

    Chui member

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    No hard and fast rules except do not leave the scene of the crime with the criminal.
     
  12. TonyB

    TonyB Member

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    I work part time in a local pharmacy.I've decided that they don't pay me enough to NOT give someone what they want...however...I won't be moved,made to lie down or have gun pointed at me w/out taking defensive/offensive action.The company losing money is one thing,me and my co-workers getting hurt or killed is another.Of course I'd probably get fired after the incedent.
     
  13. Elmer Fudd

    Elmer Fudd Member

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    BullfrogKen, I have read a couple posts where you and perhaps Jeff refer to different types of violence by name. Could you elaborate on this hierarchy for those of us unfamiliar with the concept? Thanks!
     
  14. BullfrogKen

    BullfrogKen Moderator Emeritus

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    Last edited: May 17, 2007
  15. Librarian

    Librarian Member

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    I referred to a Kleck paper in the thread about workplace safety.
    RESISTING CRIME: THE EFFECTS OF VICTIM ACTION ON THE OUTCOMES OF CRIMES
    JONGYEON TARK, GARY KLECK
    CRIMINOLOGY VOLUME 42 NUMBER 4 2004, 861

    A bit more from the study (far too long to post all of it - 50 pages - as well as copyright violation)[SP is Self Protective actions]:
    [Emphasis added]
     
  16. trfcrugby

    trfcrugby Member

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    There was a string of robberies here in Modesto CA last year, and the two BGs shot, or tried to shoot each store clerk after getting the money. If I remember correctly, they killed one.

    This stuff drives me mad. The LEO stance in my county is that "personal protection" is not enough to get a CCW, yet you CAN get one if you transport cash deposits. So, this means that MONEY is worth protecting more than the life of my family and I.

    I know, I'm a peasant and I need to get back to work.
     
  17. Mannix

    Mannix Member

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    Yep, that's the PRK mentality alright.
     
  18. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

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  19. m.p.driver

    m.p.driver Member

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    safest to give in?

    About tens years ago in Dayton,Ohio i would stop at a dairy mart every wednesday morning to get my coffee,always the same nice older woman working the night shift.Stopped one morning to crime scene tape and police cars,a seventeen and a sixteen year old robbed her,made her lay on the floor,then shot her in the back of the head with a two shot derringer killing her.All i know is the U.S Army didnt train me to be a victim,they might kill me but i'll take some of the little bastards with me.
     
  20. Dan M.

    Dan M. Member

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    trfcrugby wrote:
    Well, the LEO view is the money makes a transporter of cash deposits a much more likely target than the average Joe. If Joe is at the ATM, it doesn't make much difference. Sure, maybe one is a planned crime and one is a crime of opportunity. Sure doesn't help Joe much. "Good thing I only had $500 when I got killed. Just think of how much more dead I'd be if I had $5,000!"
     
  21. Im283

    Im283 Member

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    If you have never had a drug addict criminal stick a gun in your face you have no clue what you will actually do.

    It is all fine and dandy to speak with bravado but let it happen to you and then come here and say what you did.

    I recommend that you do not comply with a criminal if at all possible. Do not lie down and take it.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2007
  22. bpsig

    bpsig Member

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    I used to have college professor who swore you should give anyone what ever they want, They must need it worse than you. Total bs but next day his stereo was stolen out of his truck then he starts screaming of how police should have caught him. Ya ya lol. Anyways I have found a smile and a gun gets your message of go away I am not a sheep for your abuse works wonders but somehow some of them just need to recieve the business end of a discharging gun to learn inprove the gene pool add chlorine or lots of lead.
     
  23. Pax Jordana

    Pax Jordana Member

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    Yea - what they SHOULD be saying is "give 'em what they're askin for!"
     
  24. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith Member

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    "It's safest to just give the robber what he wants..." .

    And if what he wants is your life?
     
  25. BullfrogKen

    BullfrogKen Moderator Emeritus

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    Then he'll just take it without asking for your money first, won't he? Your pockets are easier to search when he can roll you over without your hands getting in the way. Simple robberies usually don't elevate to murder after he has what he wants. They elevate to murder for other reasons. Just as this one appears to have.


    As long as you're willing to deal with his, "Or else . . .", you can do anything you desire. You can do anything in life you want to, as long as you're willing to pay for the consequences. Sometimes a fight is unavoidable, sometimes it can be avoided. The decision to not comply and "not lie down and take it" pretty much assures a fight will occur. If that's what you're willing to do, no matter what, then you've got to be willing to accept the possibility you might lose that fight . . . and what losing that fight means.
     
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