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JBT's in my neighborhood. Grrr!!!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Tom Servo, Aug 23, 2005.

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  1. Tom Servo

    Tom Servo Member

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    I live in the (relatively) quiet suburbs of north metro Atlanta. For the most part, the LEOs I've dealt with are great guys with alot of respect for those who own and carry arms. But tonight...arrghh...

    I was in a convenience store. Another guy was carrying openly, and an officer walked in, stared for a second, then asked the guy if he was an officer. The guy said no, and the officer told him to turn around. The officer then removed the man's gun and called for backup.

    Backup arrived, and they proceeded to ask him why he needed a gun, why he felt he needed to carry, and what he did for a living. When he told them he carried for protection, they rolled their eyes. When he mentioned that he was licensed and had a right to, one of the officers responded, "don't start on a civil rights lecture." At this point, I could taste the bile rising in my mouth.

    They decreed that he shouldn't be carrying since he didn't do anything dangerous for a living, then they ran his ID while they held his gun. While it was empty, the officer holding it swept me with the barrel six times in twenty seconds. All I wanted to do was pay for my danish and gas, and I was stuck standing there because they wouldn't move the matter outside.

    When the guy's ID came back clean, they gave him a lecture about how "just because you've got a permit doesn't mean we welcome it." When he started to answer, one of the officers threatened to arrest him because he was carrying in a place that serves alcohol (though NOT for on-site consumption), but that he'd "go easy" on the guy "this time." They then told the guy that the permit only allowed concealed, not open, carry. They also claimed that since one of his magazines was marked "law enforcement," that it was illegal (yet they returned it to him).

    There are so many things wrong with this. I know alot of the officers in this area, and they're alot better and smarter about this. The only difference between me and the guy at that moment was that the officers couldn't see my gun, but I still got more than a little nervous. I'd rather not get locked up only to have to make bail and get exonerated after having to pay for a lawyer. I'm wondering who I should call on this? Sheriff? Attorney General? Mayor? Any suggestions?
     
  2. nextjoe

    nextjoe Member

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    Wait, isn't Kennesaw the town that REQUIRED people to keep a gun in the house?!? You'd expect the cops there to be a bit more respectful of the rights of law-abiding citizens.

    I just checked packing.org, which says that permit holders can carry both concealed and OPENLY in Georgia.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2005
  3. Tom Servo

    Tom Servo Member

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    BTW, it wasn't Kennesaw, but a neighboring town.
     
  4. zahc

    zahc Member

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    You didn't say anything? I'm afraid I would have come to the guy's rescue, verbally and tactfully.
     
  5. Blue Jays

    Blue Jays Member

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    Hi ErikF-

    Yes, the correct person to call in this example would be the Attorney General for your district.

    ~ Blue Jays ~
     
  6. PATH

    PATH Member

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    Sheesh! You just can't make this stuff up! :barf:
     
  7. mattw

    mattw Member

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    I don't think i would fault the officers for running his ID while they held onto his gun, you never know what kind of psychos are running around out there. It should've ended at "sorry for the trouble, you just looked a little conspicuous.. can't be too careful."

    I'm all for open carry rights and think it should be as socially acceptable as chewing gum, but I do get a little wierded out when I see somone walking down the street that is openly packing heat and I don't see a badge. Until I can be carrying I think i'll always feel a bit uneasy about that stuff.
     
  8. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    Nope, no shades of a Police State here. Move along, move along....
    Why is that? "Its good for me, but not for thee?".

    I agree with zahc's position. Though I do have to wonder if I'd have been as tactfull as zahc may have been. I've had about enough of bullies with badges. :fire:
     
  9. Strings

    Strings Member

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    and this is why it's a REALLY good idea to have a printout of the relevant statutes handy. "Here it is, in black and white, officer"
     
  10. Matt G

    Matt G Moderator Emeritus

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    You say "officer." You mean municipal police? If so, the correct course of action would be to write a letter to the Chief, with a CC to the city council and the mayor. Consider CC'ing the State Atty Gen, and the Georgia P.O.S.T. office. (Whatever they call it.)

    In the letter, you provide broad strokes. Do NOT quote unless you are absolutely CERTAIN that the words were the ones used. Don't state anything implied or simply inferred. State facts. Try to get the name of the individual that they shook down. Try to get him to go in on the letter, for standing. (You technically have no standing in this.) Try to get the names of witnesses. Try to gather the verbage, word for word, of all of the relevant laws, ordinaces, and codes involved. Quote the relevant sections, or at least cite them.

    Make very certain that you are on solid ground before sending the letter. It needs to reference the time, date, and location of the incident. You can get the names of the officers involved by filing a Public Records request with the department.
     
  11. 50 Freak

    50 Freak Member

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    Stupid me being in Cali, but why did this guy carry openly? A Concealed Carry permit is just what it says CONCEALED Carry. I have a CCW here and I can't imagine walking out in the open with a pistol hanging of the side of my hip. May be legal, but I'm sure you'll make a lot of people nervous. And that's something that is not good. Sounds like the guy was asking for trouble.

    Although the LE's may have had a stick up their ass, I think they did the right thing. But no need for a LE to threaten anyone with "busting" their ass and "letting them off". Sounds like bully tactics to me. I'd take it up with their sargent or captain on that issue only. No place for that in Law Enforcment.
     
  12. TechBrute

    TechBrute Member

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    [​IMG]
    <cartman>You will respect my authoritay!</cartman>
     

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  13. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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    In CA a carry permit might be limited to concealed only, but that is not the case where I live or in GA where this occured.

    Why carry open ? Well ,first of all, because you can - it is perfectly legal , and why is that "asking for trouble" ? Perhaps he was simply not wearing his cover garmet because it was a warm day and he felt he didn't need to put it on to make a run into the store. Realy doesn't make any difference why , because he was within compliance of the law. Does he now also have to be in compliance with some standard of political correctness or the whims of an LEO ??
     
  14. grimlock

    grimlock Member

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    Erik, where was this?
     
  15. Molon Labe

    Molon Labe Member

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    Harassment by thugs in uniform. Simple as that.
     
  16. PX15

    PX15 Member

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    Open Carry?

    I know I'm gonna get hammered for this post, but it always amazes me when someone feels the need to "open carry" and then is surprised when they wind up in just such a situation as described in this thread.

    I know the 2nd amendment gives us the right to own guns. I know the State of Georgia allows open carry (with restrictions).

    I also know that open carry often scares the crap out of a lot of people who observe it. I'm a member of the NRA and I think as gun owners we should try and do everything we can to woo more people to "our way of thinking" rather than the opposite. You can tell me all day long that you are within your 2nd amendment rights to do this or that, but open carry is considered by many as more "in your face" than it is a simple exercise of your rights under the Constitution.

    For the life of me I cannot understand the need to open carry in a WalMart, 7/11, or Longhorn Steak house, etc. If you have a concealed weapons permit, then CONCEAL the firearm and go on about your business.

    If in fact there happen's to be a "robbery about to happen" the only thing you will accomplish by open carry is being the first one shot.... You would be much better served by concealed carry. I don't want the bad guys knowing anyone other than themselves is armed.. At least you will have the element of surprise should you feel the need to get involved. And hey, if no one is being hurt by the robbers, I say just keep your mouth shut, your firearm hidden, and let em have the money. Money can be replaced, lives can't.



    I'm not arguing the person's "right" to open carry, I just question his judgement, or lack thereof, in doing so.

    As for the actions of the Police involved, I can understand why they would check the person out, but they obviously were not happy that he was carrying openly, just because he wanted to. I think some LEO's like to think carrying (openly) is "just for them".. I think they were wrong in how they handled the situation, but I can guarantee you that at least in MY part of Georgia you DON'T want to start a pissing contest with LEO's. You can very easily wind up in jail for your trouble, and even if you are in the right, it can still be a very expensive and troublesome problem. We have more than our share of "Barney Fife" types, and they will probably be given the benefit of the doubt by any supervisors, or Judges that eventually get involved. It's NOT right of course, but it is "what it is".

    My feeling about LEO's in general is that I wouldn't have their jobs under any conditions. They are underpaid, underappreciated, and face more potential for deadly confrontation daily than most of us do in a lifetime. I think 90% of LEO's are just regular folks trying to do as good a job as they can under the politically correct society we live in. They are 2nd guessed and criticized and rarely appreciated, until you need them.. (Same logic as some use with the military.) The remaining 10% of LEO's are just regular buttholes like you find in ANY occupation, with the exception that they can (and will) have the authority to make your life miserable should they desire to do so. It is what it is.

    Open carry IN MY OPINION is generally a bad idea. If you feel the need to be armed, then carry concealed. It's not about rights, it's about tact, and being smart as opposed to stupid. Or at least being perceived as stupid.

    I DON'T like seeing someone carrying openly, and I'm a gun nut.. I can certainly see how open carry would alarm some.

    And, just because you might be dressed well, and looking like the wonderful middle class American you obviously are, other's who carry openly might not have the same appearance. You are judged by appearance, whether you like it or not, and if you LOOK like you shouldn't be carrying a firearm you probably shouldn't be doing so.

    Open carry will only get you criticism. It's not about legality, it's about being reasonably smart and avoiding confrontations such as started this discussion in the first place.

    JMOFO :banghead:
     
  17. bogie

    bogie Member

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    Heh... In Kennesaw, there's an ol' boy who carries openly All The Time.

    I'd personally have called the officer on the safety stuff.

    Then I'd have phoned the station, with cell phone, while standing there.
     
  18. Molon Labe

    Molon Labe Member

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    Perhaps. But so what? That's the problem of the person who is scared or nervous, not the person who is carrying the gun...
     
  19. WayneConrad

    WayneConrad Member

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    Yeah, open carry shows bad judgement. Just go to the back of the bus like you're asked to. If you insist on sitting in front like a first-class citizen, you deserve all the trouble you'll get.

    Sheesh.
     
  20. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Geez ... did I drop into some DU lefty bedwetter site by mistake ??? :barf:

    et al .....................................
     
  21. Molon Labe

    Molon Labe Member

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    Me too. In fact, I would have challenged just about everything he said. If nothing else than to remind him that I have rights.

    I feel like going out today and open-carrying just to see if I get harassed by a JBT...
     
  22. Molon Labe

    Molon Labe Member

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    And to those who say, "Open carry is foolish, blaa blaa blaa" I respond as follows:

    1. That's your opinion. My opinion may be different.
    2. Harassment by JBTs is wrong.
    3. Even if it's true that it's foolish to open carry, it doesn't matter. I have a right to open carry, and that's that.
     
  23. Crosshair

    Crosshair Member

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    PX15

    I have to disagree with you. So what if the Sheeple get scared if you have open carry? The cops are in the WRONG here. I wear my hear long and have narrow eyes, I look like a stoned hippie. (I like the hippie look) What if some day the cops pull me over and slam my head against the hood of my car because they think I MUST be a drug dealer, detain me, run my ID, search my car. Because only people with long "hippie hair" and narrow eyes are drug dealers. Just like someone who is carrying openly MUST be either a gang banger or looking for trouble. Should I cut my hair and tape my eyes open wide just to look like everyone else just so I don't scare the sheeple and so the cops don't WRONGLY detain me. I don't think so.
     
  24. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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    Matt G has the proper course of action down pat.
     
  25. jondar

    jondar Member

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    "If, in fact, there is a "robbery about to happen", the only thing you will accomplish by open carry is being the first one shot."


    Sounds logical to me.
     
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