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Jews against guns

Discussion in 'Legal' started by PILMAN, Dec 12, 2006.

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  1. PILMAN

    PILMAN Member

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    Maybe someone else can answer this as I don't have a real answer nor do I really want to ask but one thing I don't understand (as I'm Jewish my self) why there are so many Jewish organizations against gun ownership and firearms? Almost every Nazi seems to claim Jews are responsible for disarming us and use Feinstein as an example. I know there are a lot of Jews against guns and I know plenty who are also pro guns but it seems like most take the liberal aspect. I mean I figure after the holocaust and stuff every Jew would want to be armed. Most of my Jewish relatives keep asking why I need a gun and I just kind of ignore them. I don't want this to turn into a racist fight or anything but perhaps someone has some answers? Thanks.
     
  2. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    She's not Jewish.
     
  3. PILMAN

    PILMAN Member

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    Senator Dianne Feinstein was born Dianne Emiel Goldman[1] in San Francisco to Leon and Betty Goldman. She has two sisters, Lynne Kennedy and Yvonne Banks. Her father, who died in 1975, was a nationally renowned surgeon who was the first Jewish person made tenured physician at the University of California Medical Center.[2] She received her B.A. degree in history in 1955 from Stanford University.

    Religion Judaism
     
  4. Delta608

    Delta608 Member

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    I guessing that most Jews are liberals and vote democratic.......:barf:
     
  5. thirty-thirty

    thirty-thirty Member

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    It's a contradiction, not only is the President of the NRA, Sandra Froman Jewish, but I'm told so are most of the anti-gun politicians; Feinstein, Boxer, Waxman, Lautenberg, Cellar and Schumer. Then you have the JPFA. Someone please explain this.
     
  6. Jackal

    Jackal Member

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    I guess that guns aren't kosher.:neener:
     
  7. PILMAN

    PILMAN Member

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    Yeah but even then, many (not all) seem very outspoken about being against gun ownership and leading the anti gun cause (check out the NRA blacklist). I can't stand to associate with some of them. Are most minoritys against gun ownership?
     
  8. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

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    [Religion Here] Against Guns

    Disclaimer: I'm not a member of any of the religions under discussion here. I'm also not an atheist.

    It is my experience that the "religion" of a given person is largely of no consequence in his view on arms.

    I know Christians who cite scripture to cover their own spinal deficiencies.

    I know Buddhists who wax all "radically genteel" and "above violence" to justify their denial.

    I know Jews who won't touch firearms, one in particular who said, "Oh, I would never have one in my house, because I'd use it."

    As I encounter people who passionately support RKBA, I find them from a wide spectrum of belief systems.

    Kennedy is an Irish Catholic. He's anti-self defense, but pro-amphibious car.

    I've met Baptists who "can't abide them things" and Baptists who are predictably sick the first week of hunting season every year.

    One thing I have found is that many of the people who fear weapons have some event in their life where they were overwhelmed by a weapon, a person with a weapon, a person who owns/uses/promotes weapons, or even a person who loathes weapons. The common denominator is, in many cases, the overwhelm itself and the association (of some kind) with weapons.

    Yes, I frequently hear of scriptural or philosophical rationale for the rejection and denial of weapons, but have come to recognize that this is smoke. The real reason lies somewhere else. The fact that Jesus/Moses/Buddha/Confucious/whoever stated plainly that firearms are the root of all evil is something of a latter-day over-dubbing.

    Don't get too hung up in the [religion here] hates guns thing.

    It's not the religion or church, it's the individual whose attitude you are seeing. The fact that like-minded people tend to stick together to reinforce their prejudices, and that like-minded people often have [religion here] and in common, and attend the same [establishment], is a red herring.

    "I hate guns because I'm Jewish." or "He/she hates guns because he/she is Jewish." are both false.

    It's a handy way to avoid personal responsibility for one's own beliefs.
     
  9. Mousegun

    Mousegun Member

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    why there are so many Jewish organizations against gun ownership and firearms?

    I have asked myself that same question many times before and the only thing I can think is, apparently one generation of separation from the most horrific events that have ever taken place in modern times to any religion/race is enough to make many forget.
     
  10. junyo

    junyo Member

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    I've read that a lot of Jews are Roosevelt Democrats quite literally. Out of gratitude for the US's role in WWII they bought Roosevelt's whole progressive program, and the gun control that came with it.

    Which is ironic considering that the event that made me decide to become a gun owner was a trip to the National Holocaust museum.
     
  11. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    Some people are pro-gun and some are not. Its just as simple as that.
     
  12. SniperStraz

    SniperStraz Member

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    WARNING! Long Post!

    I think that one of the many factors for Jews is that they don't want to be feared because "fear breeds hate." I've seen the contradiction played many times over, and I think that Jews that don't own guns are just naive. I know alot of Jews who go to the range once a week and some who go once a year, and still others that have no idea how to use a gun. (most of the non gun owning Jews don't realize that the highest hate crime rating on the FBI Hate Crime List in 2005 was Anti-Semetic hate crime) From what I see the only Jews who don't see it coming are the American Jews. Lets face it, man for man the Israeli army is probably the toughest army in the world. Thats a proven historical fact. <Art's Grammaw had to do some cleanup>

    Jews are fighters from the times of the Roman oppression to the Warsaw Ghetto uprising to the Six Day War. Jews in America are the only ones who trust their lives to the Constitution of the US. If it were up to me all Jews would carry M-4 carbines on their backs like they do in Israel but unfortunately people get too comfortable with our rights. They need to be woken up. But the real reason, the sad truth is that it's easier not to believe the truth. The truth is that we all need guns. Its just like ever since I joined THR I've been a little more paranoid. Thats not to say that paranoid is bad. I always knew the truth, but I needed a little reminder. Turns out that the Jews along with the rest of the world have a short term memory problem.
    (sorry for the super long post, I just get passionate about certain things)
     
  13. RNB65

    RNB65 Member

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    Perhaps religion has nothing to do with it. Most Jews that I know are extremely politically liberal. Their anti-gun sentiment has everything to do with politics and nothing (that I'm aware of) to do with religion.
     
  14. PILMAN

    PILMAN Member

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    Good post. I meant nothing against Jews, like I said I was raised Jewish myself and my dad owned firearms, my mother was actually against them and a German convert to Judaism (my father was born Jewish).

    The reason I asked is that I visit a few racist sites every now and then, not for enjoyment or pleasure, just because I like to see what other people are saying and I was surprised how many people blamed Jews for gun control and how "they were afraid of them". I didn't agree 100 percent with them as like you said, Israel has one of the toughest military in the world. Something I have noticed though especially where I grew up in Chicago is that the majority of Jews were democrat, they were against Zionism, they believed in minority and illegal alien rights, that sort of thing. As a result many were anti-gun, heck when I told some of my old Jewish friends I had bought a gun they had responded with comments like "Why on earth would you buy a gun?! Those things kill people!" and just the rediculous generic comments of surprise. I researched a lot of organizations and was really surprised how many Jewish organizations were against gun control, yet at the same time i've seen many Jews who are pro gun ownership as well. It was not meant as a question to profile but rather to get some answers to the "myths" floating around out there I guess.
     
  15. Michael Zeleny

    Michael Zeleny member

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    There is no Jewish hunting tradition, owing to the halakhic requirements for humane slaughter of animals and ban on their cruel treatment. We are taught to identify with the hunted, not with the hunters.

    Throughout three millennia of dwelling as a pariah minority amidst the gentiles, the traditional Jewish response to pagan, Christian, and Moslem persecution has favored paying off their persecutors, on the assumption that they would not be dumb enough to kill the goose that keeps laying golden eggs. The logical conclusion of this survival strategy is incisively documented in Raul Hilberg's treatise, The Destruction of the European Jews. In spite of this fiasco, Jewish disdain for self-defense and political autonomy continues as a matter of self-loathing and inertia.
     
  16. mordechaianiliewicz

    mordechaianiliewicz Member

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    I don't know why. But I've known maybe 12 Muslims in my life. All except one were pro-gun except for one that was a die hard socialist-anarchist (don't ask, I don't understand it either). Why? Because they are all worried that the actions of the terrorists will lead to the American government attempting to wipe them all out.

    What if that action was taken and the French (big fans of gun control) took them all in. Might they become anti-gun because they saw their new home as a big Muslim haven? Possibly. In fact, probably.

    Maybe Jews in New York are alot more New York than they are Jewish. Think about the fact as stated before that Jews accepted the FDR platform. Also think of the fact that many Jews in the US think of the United States as a haven where something like the holocaust can't happen.

    Well, as for myself, I believe a holocaust can happen anywhere. It doesn't have to be because of your religion, it can be because of any reason that the perpetrators want it to be. Look at the USSR, there were 30 million people killed!

    Simply because they didn't agree with what the government believed, (or atleast someone said they did not). And after the 20th century, I'd think it should be proof that a person with arms is alot safer than one without.

    But, I'm Jewish, and I'm extremely pro-gun. And most of the fellow Jews I know are actually ambivalent to the issue, and I think the real reason is where I live.
     
  17. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    PILMAN:

    I'll stand corrected. Thanks for the information, eh?
     
  18. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    afaik

    The Jewish are not keen on hunting, perhaps thats part of it.
    I am mostly Irish, and on St Stephens day in the rural areas
    of Ireland they get drunk and shoot at things (so they have a hunting tradition)
    It seems though that the Irish are very liberal and against guns as well.

    Also I think the largest Jewish population in the USA is probably NYC, and NYC has a long anti gun tradition as well.
     
  19. PILMAN

    PILMAN Member

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    Damn so i'm violating torah by hunting? :(
     
  20. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    As I understand it, the problem is not hunting per se, but rather that most large and medium size game taken that way would not be kosher. It's a doctrine that only applies to Jews, of course.

    Plus, most Jews are urban with urban roots going back centuries here and in Europe. Most of them have no tradition of hunting. This is also why most Jews are blue staters and anti-gun. It literally comes with the territory. That said, I know a lot of Jews, particularly the Orthodox Chabadniks, who pack heat and aren't opposed to the RKBA at all. The mainstream Jewish organizations generally do not speak for the Orthodox. In fact, they are led by more "progressive" Jews who follow the Conservative or Reform branches. They have embraced the same liberal dogma that most among the urban intelligentsia have embraced.
     
  21. Michael Zeleny

    Michael Zeleny member

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    Yes.
     
  22. James T Thomas

    James T Thomas Member

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    Dear PILMAN; Shalom!

    I had posted seveal months ago about seeing four or five Jewish groups, some even wore the Yarmulke (SP?), and several were families, at the state game land shooting range when I was there. And you know what the sense of what was going on? Fear! It was not pleasant to contemplate what was going on in the shooter's minds as the dads instructed their wives, daughters and sons to shoot; it did not have they atmosphere of a recreational outing. I'm supposing this came about by recent attacks on Synagogues and several killers (these animals were not killed themselves, but arrested) -who openly stated they wanted to kill Jews.

    Ask your parents to look up the passage in the old Hebrew history book that states: "was there a shield or a spear seen amoung fourtythousand in Israel?"
    In another passage it states that the Philistines/ Palestinians did not permit the Jews to sharpen their farming tools for fear that they would forge swords and spears! That is part of your tradition. I'm supposing it came about, at least in part during the Babylonian/ Iraq / Iran captivities where the Rabbinical authority developed. The exiles were enslaved and those who survived found that investing in higher education, which the captors esteemed, to the point where it takes on a religious quality, enabled them to survive and even prosper. Those who thought like this were "remnants."

    I think that same viewpoint exists here today in the USA; especially in NYC where the Jewish popluation exceeds the entire population of Israel itself.
    You "need" a gun because you are Jewish.

    You might mention to your parents also that it was a Jewish financier who bankrolled most of the American Revolution when congress was not forthcoming with funds to George Washinton and our army. He was never repaid by the way.

    How about the Jews who fought the NAZI's in the Warsaw ghetto?
    Out of the six million who died in the death camps if one in ten was an able bodied man and was armed and fought them, who knows? Perhaps the war would have ended sooner and many lives saved.

    If someone tries to disarm me "they will have to pry my gun out of my cold dead hands."
     
  23. dustind

    dustind Member

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    Sorry that I do not have enough time to be more helpful, but this was discusses before. A search should find some of it. Andrew Rothman and Joel Rosemberg's journals talk about this. They are both Jewish members here. Come to think of it, they are both Jewish when they aren't here. :neener:

    I know the lack of a rural background was given as a reason once.
     
  24. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Hunting for entertainment or sport is forbidden, but if it is done to protect a settlement or obtain furs for the furrier trade it's a different matter. That hunting isn't done for sport but for survival, and so long as no non-kosher meat is eaten there is NO prohibition against it. Otherwise the long tradition of Jewish furriers would not have been possible.

    A lot of the anti-hunting rhetoric you find from Jews has nothing to do with religion. It's the same nonsense you get from most urbanites these days.
     
  25. Pro_Gun

    Pro_Gun Member

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