Jews, Nazis and guns

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Jim K

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Part of the leftist attack on Ben Carson was a letter published in the Washington Post from one Fritz Kahn. He wrote, "If armed Jews had sought to halt any of this [the anti-Jewish attacks] they would have been arrested, prosecuted, and executed." Mr. Kahn claims to have been there.

I wrote the paper suggesting they might tell us what happened to the Jews who were not armed and did not resist.

I don't expect my letter to be published.

Jim
 
I recently wrote someone taking that position, "Imagine if at Kristallnacht the Jews had been on the roofs of their businesses with long guns like the Koreans in the L.A. riots."
 
I think the question is wether or not they should have had the right, and therefore the means, to defend themselves and protect their families. Even if it would have been futile to do so, that isn't the point, the point is they should have had the right and means but as it was they didn't have a choice.

I'm reminded of saying "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
 
One of the more interesting asides of WWII was, I've always thought, the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

It seems that if there was the same level of gun ownership in prewar Poland, and more good guys available to pull triggers, it might have been different. Shame they weren't able to pull it off. Can you imagine the "Master Race's" response to being stalemated and then soundly beaten by Jews?
 
There was never a chance of the Nazis being beaten by citizen uprisings in the conquered nations. But it could have caused them to divert resources away from the fronts. The Warsaw Ghetto uprising meant that thousands of soldiers had to be used to quell it. Those were soldiers that couldn't be used for other tasks. Enough of that kind of activity might have been able to speed their defeat.
 
There was never a chance of the Nazis being beaten by citizen uprisings in the conquered nations. But it could have caused them to divert resources away from the fronts. The Warsaw Ghetto uprising meant that thousands of soldiers had to be used to quell it. Those were soldiers that couldn't be used for other tasks. Enough of that kind of activity might have been able to speed their defeat.

My point precisely. Play the war of attrition game long enough to come up with a relevant plan B.
 
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Armed civilians may have little chance against an oppressive gov't.














... but disarmed citizens have NO chance.


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One of the more interesting asides of WWII was, I've always thought, the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

It seems that if there was the same level of gun ownership in prewar Poland, and more good guys available to pull triggers, it might have been different. Shame they weren't able to pull it off. Can you imagine the "Master Race's" response to being stalemated and then soundly beaten by Jews?
During the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, Goebbels wrote in his diary, "Heavy engagements are being fought which even led to a Jewish supreme command issuing daily communiqués. Of course, this fun won't last very long. But it shows what is to be expected of the Jews when they are in possession of arms."
 
Read "Gun Control In The Third Reich"-- it's chilling and seems like current news in a lot of ways. [emoji53]
 
Part of the leftist attack on Ben Carson was a letter published in the Washington Post from one Fritz Kahn. He wrote, "If armed Jews had sought to halt any of this [the anti-Jewish attacks] they would have been arrested, prosecuted, and executed." Mr. Kahn claims to have been there.

I wrote the paper suggesting they might tell us what happened to the Jews who were not armed and did not resist.

I don't expect my letter to be published.

Jim
And this would have been worse then what actually happened, HOW?????
 
The difference is at that point in time, the Jewish community wasn't completely aware of just how bad things were, or would become.

Keep in mind they were very proud of being German citizens, with many having served in WWI on the German side. They couldn't believe that they were being treated as they were, and figured it would blow over.

By the time of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, all bets were off, they knew what they were facing, and they fought well against their oppressors. Sadly, they received no help from outside the country as rebels regularly do now.
 
Part of the leftist attack on Ben Carson was a letter published in the Washington Post from one Fritz Kahn. He wrote, "If armed Jews had sought to halt any of this [the anti-Jewish attacks] they would have been arrested, prosecuted, and executed." Mr. Kahn claims to have been there.

I wrote the paper suggesting they might tell us what happened to the Jews who were not armed and did not resist.

I don't expect my letter to be published.

Jim
The Jews in Nazi Germany were convinced they could hide in plain sight as they had for many years, but in the end that did not work. It is not like they had any history of being willing to oppose oppression with force, and in fact most did not even try to hide when their time came. They just meekly went to the camps.

Totally different mind set.
 
To be fair, they'd seen the pogroms of the past and "times had changed" and most didn't believe that something like that would happen (and especially not the organized extermination).

This argument isn't new. The cry of "Never Again", organizations like the Jewish Defense League, the zionist movements to find a "homeland" where there wouldn't be an opportunity for the government to persecute jews all are balanced against the low profile approach taken by jews that couldn't believe that the persecution would change to extermination. A landless minority often has little choice except to try to keep the attention of the majority from focusing upon them when the majority is looking for someone to blame for perceived problems.
 
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Part of the leftist attack on Ben Carson was a letter published in the Washington Post from one Fritz Kahn. He wrote, "If armed Jews had sought to halt any of this [the anti-Jewish attacks] they would have been arrested, prosecuted, and executed." Mr. Kahn claims to have been there.

I wrote the paper suggesting they might tell us what happened to the Jews who were not armed and did not resist.

I don't expect my letter to be published.

Jim
The original Fritz Kahn was a German Jewish physician (1888-1968).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Kahn

Maybe the letter published was one taken out of context? Or totally fabricated?
 
I would think "Fritz Kahn" would not be an uncommon name.

A major factor in the lack of resistance was the Jewish culture itself which was never a "gun culture." Hunting was not a factor (literally "not Kosher") and Jewish tradition was to protect the community, even if individuals had to be sacrificed or sacrifice themselves. The constant fear was that any resistance would result in destruction of the whole community. The Warsaw uprising was an act of desperation when it became clear that no amount of "keeping a low profile" or "blending in" would avoid the "final solution."

In fact, prior to the Nazi takeover, the Jews in Germany were probably about as well integrated as anywhere in Europe. France and Poland were more anti-Jewish* than Germany at that time.

*I don't use the term "anti-Semitic" since the Arabs are Semites also.

Jim
 
There were Jewish resistance fighters in Poland outside of the Warsaw ghetto.

One thread of Jewish psychology was that resistance was probably futile and even pogroms could be weathered so some could survive. A common view was that if the Cossack rapes Emma and you kill the Cossack, the Cossacks will kill everyone in the village.

Given what we know now, my view is that if Hans is coming to kill me, I might lose the fight in the end but I prefer Mrs. Hans or Momma Hans to get a telegram that Hans didn't make it either.

Unfortunately, Jews in the USA feel protected by the state (never a good choice), discrimination was reduced legislation and cultural change. That was primarily through liberal oriented political entities. It is only recently that conservatives have been more friendly to Jews - primarily through the Israeli connection (for various geopolitical and religious predictions). Thus, conservatives still have a negative karmic value to many American Jews. Civil Rights was not that important to conservatives in the past but important to Jews.

As far as resistance to genocide - an interesting point is that modern scholarship clearly points to the use of private firearms in the Civil Rights movements by African-Americans. I've posted the books before. While not a Nazi holocaust, the treatment of Black, violence by state governments and agents protected and promoted by state governments was clearly horrific. Firearms ownership helped resist such during the height of the Civil Rights days and probably modulate more extreme state governmental responses.
 
Boiling down the plight of the European Jewish population into a few points may enable discussion but does not convey the true complexity of the situation. As with any situation, there were some that could see what was coming and left Europe, there were others that chose to stay for a myriad of reasons and then tried to flee Europe. I am sure there were those that were poor and believed that they would be better off staying instead of walking into the unknown and hope someone would show them mercy. There had to be those that thought they had been accepted by their European colleagues to the point that they had surpassed their "Jew-ness". There must have been those that thought that they would be delivered by reason, or by a public outcry for mercy, or by God. Surely there were those that thought that they could betray some to protect their self. Just imagine every type of personality that you have lived with, worked with, and interacted with, all of those people were to be found amongst the Jews.

And now I will apply this to the Second Amendment.

Our founding fathers were like those Jews that could see what was coming. Wether that vision and foresight is because they have studied history, or because they innately understand human nature.

Tyranny exists in the hearts and souls of man. We have all met those types in our lives. You know the ones that are always trying to get into a position over someone. But more than just that, but to get into a position where they make choices for you because you are deemed to child-like, to ignorant, or just to plain stupid to do what is best.

How many ways are there to over throw a Government. History has shown us that diplomacy rarely if ever has done so. Our founding fathers tried for many years to get equal representation, equal treatment under the law, and a voice. I think they wanted to be full British citizens, not seen as some less type of person in the kingdom. They tried to negotiate and plea their case. It finally went to arms.

The owning of a firearm is a responsibility. But not just any firearm for any purpose. Not just a bird gun for bird hunting or a squirrel gun for "squirrels and such". Every citizen, which is the militia, should have a firearm set aside for the defense of liberty.

My rifle alone will not stop a Bradley fighting vehicle. My rifle alone will not stop an Apache helicopter. Nor did a single muskets stop a British naval ship, nor did a single musket stop a squad of British soldiers.

Also, our country has been wise to make our military under civilian control. My family and friends in the military feel they are our troops. They will not accept orders to turn against us, the U.S. civilian population. If that time comes they will resign their military position and come home to their family and friends and take up their rifle and stand with us.

Now, I do not know how it would have been if the European Jew had had in their hearts burned the ideas of Hamilton and Jefferson. This burning conviction that it us justifiable and even right to meet your own government at every door, from every city plaza or square, and meet that government with the full conviction that I am justified to use deadly force if the government continues its pursuit of tyranny. A true American has no moral dilemma to overcome, the decision has been made over two hundred years ago. That is what makes an American. Anyone plotting against a true American and poses the question "Will the American citizen stand up and fight" has to consider that behind every door they will be met by someone holding a firearm that has already decided to use it. If the European Jew would have had this Hamiltonian and Jeffersonian conviction it would have given the Nazi movement something to consider, something that they did not have to consider in reality.

Those that want to disarm America are like the European Jew. They are many different personalities that have many reasons they think are justifiable in removing firearms from America. There are those that can't imagine anything like World War II could ever happen in a modern society. Some how they delude themselves with the word "Modern". Every nation that has ever been at war was modern for their time. The illogical audacity that we are some how more wise then our predecessors does not hold. I have studied some of the classic philosophers as well as a few ancient religions. I am amazed at how deep, how multi-faceted, how insightful these people were and in todays world there may be their equal but their is no one that clearly surpasses their logic, reason, and understanding of the human condition.

The Second Amendment is the key, it is the only thing that allows the other freedoms to be enumerated.
 
The anti Carson premise pushed by the left and media disregards the long history of guerrilla warfare and its effect on outcomes throughout history.
It promotes the big government view that has literally sent millions to their death as conquered sheep rather than as free men.
 
Does anyone remember a group of farmers and shopkeepers that kind of stood up to the most powerful nation on earth. Kind of makes you wonder
 
Elie Wiesel says, "If someone says he's coming to kill you, believe him." I think that besides being a warning to take the Hamas charter and Iran's statements seriously, this is his shorthand explanation of why the Jews who stayed in Europe mostly didn't fight back, or didn't fight back until it was too late -- they could not believe that in the mid-twentieth century an arguably highly civilized country with respected science and culture, would actually carry out Hitler's stated plan to annihilate the entire Jewish people.
 
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My mother tells me of relatives who were told to flee and refused as they thought they were part of Austrian society and would be Ok. Then they sent letters to help them. Too late.

You can also research how many Western countries refused to allow refugees as they didn't want Jews - including us.

Any Jew who thinks the society they are embedded in, will protect them is delusional.

Historians did a counterfactual experiment once and asked who among them would have predicted a Holocaust in Germany as compared to such in another country. Most said they would have predicted France or Turkey if the decision point was before WW I.
 
Predictably enough, we've abandoned the original Activism content about Mr. Carson and drifted off completely to another subject so we'll close this.
 
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