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JHP's damaging feed ramp?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Pyro, Nov 28, 2012.

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  1. Pyro

    Pyro Member

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    I was purchasing an older Ballister Molina, to which I told the store worker I know "If you polish that feed ramp I'll buy it". It's fed JHP's like a champ since but I've noticed the feed ramp actually starting to rough up as a result of shooting JHP's I'm guessing, the edge of the jacket causing minute indents where it impacts the feed ramp before chambering. Anyone else seen this before in guns not designed to carry JHP's?
     
  2. holdencm9

    holdencm9 Member

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    I am not familiar with this pistol. Does it have an exceptionally steep feed ramp? What is it made of? I guess I just don't see how the copper jacket could damage hardened steel, even with a ton of repetitive hits. Are you sure what you see isn't just superficial marks?
     
  3. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Sounds like what you're seeing is bits of your bullets being deposited on the ramp rather than gouging the ramp.
     
  4. del4

    del4 Member

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    I'm with holdercm9. I don't see where lead and copper can damage a steel ramp. See if you can clean it off.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2
     
  5. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    Never heard of that.. can't see how it's possible. Maybe it's from the case mouths and steel cases?
     
  6. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    Are you using diamond dusted JHPs?
     
  7. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

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    Na, I shoot JHP's nearly exclusively through my AL's and have never seen that happen, and I've been using them for over 4 decades. If a copper jacket could do that to the ramp, it would destroy a barrel in one shooting session or so. Try polishing it, I'll bet it goes away?

    GS
     
  8. chris in va

    chris in va Member

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    I have 'matte' marks on my CZ's otherwise polished ramp, basically where it's been hit by the cases.
     
  9. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    For those of you with 1911s having several thousand rounds, pull the barrels and inspect the chamber at 12 'clock. One material being harder than another does not mean the softer cannot damage the harder. Don't buy it? Sharpen a brass drift punch, put the frame in a vise, place the point on the feed ramp and give the punch a good whack with a dead blow hammer. I don't really advise this and I'd bet no one will rush out to try it.

    To the OP, if you're going to shoot that pistol I'd recommend cast bullets and I'd recommend inspecting all brass before loading it. .45ACP brass runs short and it sure don't get longer with shooting so trimming damaged case mouths is asking for trouble; throw them out.
     
  10. Bovice

    Bovice Member

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    I'll second what skylarbone says. The damage is going to come from stress concentrations, I.e. the edge of the jhp bullet nose. Stress is force/area. If you exceed the yield stress limit, you get deformation.
     
  11. holdencm9

    holdencm9 Member

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    I agree that a softer material can damage a harder material with enough cycles and concentration of stress, but it sounded at first like he was talking a few hundred rounds, not a few thousand. On second-read, it doesn't really indicate either way.

    OP, how many rounds are we talking?
     
  12. RustHunter87

    RustHunter87 Member

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    I would not buy that ^ ever dent a hammer?
    If brass dents steel its some poor steel, and were not talkin about a Sharped Punch but a relative soft and rounded bullet nose with a glancing blow at that, if the stuff the bullets were made out of was that hard you would have not riffling left
     
  13. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    RH, we're talking about jagged edges and often crimped serrations, both copper and brass getting a running start on the feed ramp. On rifling, a good guesstimate on barrel life shooting jacketed bullets is around 50,000. Not bad until compared with 200,000 for those shooting lead. Regardless of which you shoot, have a look at the chambers of your well used auto loaders.

    There is also a big difference between hard and tough. Carbide steel is hard, ever wonder why they don't make firearms with it?

    Another possibility I neglected to mention during the bullet debate, would be the magazine follower- depending on the magazines used.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  14. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Every 8th grader knows that relative hardness is defined by which thing can scratch the other. Unless copper is harder than steel, how can it be scratching the feed ramp?
     
  15. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Can you tell me how saw blades and drill bits can wear out when cutting wood? Any 8th graders explain why I still sharpen my knives after cleaning game? Guessing you haven't taken the Pepsi Challenge with that drift punch yet, perhaps you think your frame is made of poor steel?
     
  16. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    It is a known problem in early alloy-frame guns such as the old Colt LW Commander after JHP ammo came along in the 1960's.

    Never seen it or heard of it happening on a steel frame 1911, which your gun is one version of.
    Even after many thousands of rounds.

    You sure it isn't just brass scuffing stuck to the feed ramp?

    Try cleaning it off with copper solvent and see what it looks like then.

    rc
     
  17. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    It's probably ganks of lead smooshed on there.
     
  18. brickeyee

    brickeyee Member

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    Steel mag followers have been known to start damaging feed ramps.
     
  19. Bovice

    Bovice Member

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    You might not dent a hammer, but find me one that's hit 500 nails and tell me there aren't any scuffs. We're talking about forceful impact, not rubbing to compare surface hardness. Those are very different things.

    If I am thinking of the right gun, he's referring to an old mexican copy of the 1911. Old enough to have been around before JHPs.
     
  20. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    The Ballester Molina was manufactured in Argentina by Hispano Argentina Fábrica de Automotores between 1938 and 1953 as a less expensive alternative to the Colt, and they were issued along with the Modelo 1927...aka Argentine Colt aka Sistema.

    They were very good pistols, but it's unlikely that any of the frames were heat-treated at all, nor were the slides prior to 1946, if even that early. Copied more closely from the Spanish Star than the 1911, it shared with the 1911 the barrel, barrel bushing, recoil spring, and magazine.

    The bullet to feed ramp impact isn't a dead-on 90 degree impact, either. The bullet nose impacts at an angle and glances upward...so there's likely more rubbing than beating.

    Without being able to examine the gun, I'd venture a guess that the forward edge of a magazine follower has done the damage...and if the proper 7-round magazine had been used...it couldn't have hit the feed ramp. I've owned and extensively fired over a dozen Colt LW Commanders with both hollowpoint and hardball, and have never had frame damage because I've always used the proper magazines.

    Best WAG...somebody used a McCormick Shooting Star or Powermag in the gun.
     
  21. ku4hx

    ku4hx Member

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    Wow! If I had a gun whose feed ramp was so soft a bullet properly hitting it truly caused damaged, I'd destroy it. Any gun with steel that soft and delicate is not safe to shoot.
     
  22. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Edges get dulled from use. I was talking purely about hardness, not toughness. Deer flesh cannot scratch your blade. Wood cannot scratch a drill bit.
     
  23. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Can't happen. Flesh, skin, hair, wood, all soft compared to cutting instruments, couldn't possibly remove metal and that's what has to happen if it's getting dull...which is harder, the knife or the stones it's sharpened with?

    There's no problem shooting the pistol but again consider the ammo and magazine used to do so. They ain't exactly mass producing spare parts for 'em.
     
  24. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Yet, they do get dulled with use. Otherwise, there would be no need for sharpening stones.

    Now then, back to the Ballester Molina's feed ramp...
     
  25. Texan Scott

    Texan Scott Member

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    Tuner, did I understand you correctly? Are you of the opinion that McComicks mags do bad things to 1911 feed ramps over time?

    (not arguing- genuinely don't know) :confused:
     
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