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Jogging gun / dog protection

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by wheelgunlover, Mar 14, 2007.

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  1. wheelgunlover

    wheelgunlover Member

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    I know this has been discussed frequently, but I am looking for recommendations for a jogging gun that would be effective against dogs as well. I would normally carry pepper spray as well, but I think I am interested in adding a firearm to the mix and going the fanny pack route.

    Recently I have been carrying a S&W 442 .38 snub loaded with +P LHPs. But I am questioning its effectiveness.

    Also, are there advantages or disadvantages of revolvers over semis, or vice versa? I am primarily concerned about the constant bouncing around of the firearm innards.

    I'm assuming I should focus on lighter weight guns so as to minimize risk of injury to the lower back.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. hagar

    hagar member

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    For jogging, fanny pack carry is probably your best bet. I would take a look at the new Kel_Tec PF9, or stick to a Glock 26, 5 or 6 rounds might not be enough to take care of a threat from a pack of dogs, muggers, the Energizer bunny, whatever.
     
  3. whited

    whited Member

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    I know a gun is best, but I just can't jog comfortably whilst toting.

    I think a good blade and pepper spray will do the job, but I recognize they
    are second best.
     
  4. Nationalist

    Nationalist Member

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    kel tec p38t
     
  5. old4x4

    old4x4 Member

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    I don't think a dog's gonna hold up against 38+P's. One should slow down the biggest, meanest dog, or at least change his mind. If you can't do the job with 5, 10 ain't gonna help you either (I'm partial to revolvers). SHOT PLACEMENT. I have a SW 337 in 38+P and when the weather warms up, I'm going to carry it mountain biking with me. I like the idea of having a revolver with me over a semi. Less moving parts, and in a panicked moment, no safeties, mag releases, etc. to worry about. Just my .02
     
  6. Claude Clay

    Claude Clay Member

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    dogs

    unless they are swarming you ( doubtful unless you let them sneak up on you ) a S&W 351 7 rounds 22 mag 11 ounces VERY noisy, very accurate is all you should need. You are alpha & make strong eye contact & COMMAND the alpha dog...g o a w a y & you do not have a fear smell on you cause you are armed, he will be "confused". The stand off can last a few minutes but this has never failed me ( 4 times so far). Pack mentatility is such that if you must shoot, hit the alpha dog, his yelp will send the others scattering. Not really necceessay to kill the dog as they fight for dominance, i am tempted to say almost never to the death. As these dogs are pets that got loose they will understand g o h o m e......b a d d o g commands do not break eye contact. ps works pretty well w/ 2 legged animals also.
     
  7. Lou22

    Lou22 Member

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    I carry my Kel-Tec P3AT .380 whenever I go out for my walk. Only disadvantage is it is so small and light you gotta be careful and not forget and leave in the pocket when you put your clothes in the wash.

    Lou
     
  8. 10-Ring

    10-Ring Member

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    For me, jogging w/ a gun is just too uncomfortable....maybe a Kahr PM9 would work if you find a way to carry comfortably
     
  9. tnieto2004

    tnieto2004 Member

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    pepper spray .. unless you live around WILD DOGS .. It will be more than enough
     
  10. wally

    wally Member

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    6.4mm Velo Dog revolver was designed for just such a thing -- to shoot dogs chasing cyclists in the 1890's I believe, long obsolete and what a howl such a thing would cause if re-introduced now. My how times have changed.

    Unless you are in the boonies, shooting a dog without at least letting it bite you first will likely land you in a heap of trouble!

    --wally.
     
  11. kmrcstintn

    kmrcstintn Member

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    on a tangent...

    after a range session that ended abruptly due to a malfunction with the used rifle I bought (I had packed my SP101 into the gear box since we were going groundhog plunking later in the day; I planned on open carry for onbody protection while wandering around), I went back to the shop where I bought it (they guarantee the used guns & I was granted a partial refund & the rest store credit) and I left the SP101 in the gear box in the back of the car; when I returned to my apartment complex I had a wandering dog yappin up a storm at me (it had tags, but no leash and no owner in the vicinity); I was basically stuck inside my car for several minutes until the dog lost interest and wandered off...

    1) the dog was a larger breed or a mix of larger breeds :eek:

    2) he maintained eye contact with me the entire time :what:

    3) if I wasn't in the car, I probably would have been injured :fire:

    4) WHY IN THE H$#L DID I NOT PUT THE GUN IN THE FRONT OF THE CAR WITH ME?!? :banghead:
     
  12. tank mechanic

    tank mechanic Member

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    * Disclaimer. I highly doubt anyone else will find this practical but it works in my set of circumstances*

    I have to go run once a week in the woods out in the middle of no where. The guys I run with run for a really long distance at a pretty steady speed. I am not going to go out in the middle of no where without a fire arm. So, as a base layer, I put on an Under Armor shirt and then I strap on my beretta 92 in a jackass holster. I then put on another Under Armor shirt to hold the holster and mags down (I have a double mag pouch on the other side of the jackass rig and it helps counter the weight ). And then to top it off I put on a regular t shirt. It is cold enough in the morning that it is not uncomfortable to be wearing so many layers. The Under Armor shirt holds the weapon tight to my torso no matter how fast I run. The only downside is that it is a very slow draw, but I am in a situation where concealment trumps speed.
     
  13. Trisha

    Trisha Member

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    Windy day?

    So much for pepper spray (yep, that's you wheezing like the terminal emphisema patient - and the carnivore is still gnawing on you, but you can't even catch enough breath to scream. . .).

    Any green belt/open land in your vicinity? Semi-feral dogs are quite possible. But before you get too far ahead of yourself, you might try the tactical drill I use, to simulate a number of worst case basics:

    Stay up and active at least 24 hours. Fast completely for the last 8, and then, once at the range, down at least two double espressos and a glass of water. At a minimum, run at least half a mile, preferrably while either carrying an off-center pack, or dragging something substantial.

    Without stopping, as soon as you reach the firing line, have someone verify range safety and activate a travelling low target. My favorite is to use a paper plate on a 12" stick on an old Tonka truck, pulled with a string (#10 monofilament is less distracting, btw).

    Starting distance is 30 feet, and usually the travelling target is pulled by someone running as fast as they can sprint.

    Double tap.

    I fail about half the time. I can get one good hit, but the follow-up shot? With everything about the test designed to have me at the greatest physiological disadvantage, it keeps real-world limitations forefront in my mind.

    Spice it up a little?

    Give the safety officer the option of a good blood-curdling scream without warning.

    This absolutely is not recommended without the complete sequence being monitored by an RO, an SO, and an air horn is the emergency FREEZE IN PLACE signal default, always.

    All that out in the open now?

    I carry a .45acp, or a .357mag 3" with reloads. I also carry the personal size air horn (sold for the canoe, the kayak, etc) instead of pepper spray.

    Up here, something nasty on 4 legs can be anything from Fido gone bad to a mountain lion - you get one chance before something (if not more than one such beasty) is trying to swallow that first bite and tuck in for a serious meal (I've always wondered if vegans really were the other white meat to predatory carnivores).

    City folk? Do whatever you can - SAFELY - to test your limitations.

    YMMV.
     
  14. earplug

    earplug Member

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    My thoughts

    Most dogs that challenge humans are I'll trained currs.
    I have shot numerous dogs while living in the sticks near a county dump.
    Nothing but a brain hit will stop a dog quickly. A 230 FMJ .45 ACP through the ribs won't knock a 60-70 pound dog over.
    But, if you charge a normal dog, yelling like a mad man, the majority of dogs will tuck tail and run.
    If that won't work a collapsable flexible baton will work wonders.
    Don't give up on getting a firearm for the human currs.
    A cycling jersey with the rear pockets is A nice way to carry things.
     
  15. ball3006

    ball3006 Member

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    Get a Keltec

    3AT. In a small pouch, you won't even know it is there.....chris3
     
  16. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Your aim is going to be seriously impacted by your activity level. I wouldn't want to have to rely on a snub nose in those conditions. Besides, the best way to deal with 99% of the dogs out there is to stop running and face them down. And think of it this way. Your chance of hitting a dog that's barking at you are minimal, let alone getting a lethal hit with a .38. And you've just discharged a firearm in a public area with not a scratch on you to show you were in danger. If you really do get nailed, aiming DOWN AT YOUR FEET or trying to reach around to aim at the dog biting your calf or nethers is going to be an exceedingly bad idea. NEVER shoot down towards important parts of your body.

    You'll be better served for attacking dogs by sounding off like you've got a pair and standing your ground. If they get too close, a quality telescoping ASP baton smacked to the nose is quite effective. I commute by bike and get chased at least once a week. Dogs on the run like that are operating on prey drive, so don't act like prey. Besides, the dogs that chase have no real malice in them. They're just being dogs. If you start capping them, you might as well start shooting kids for throwing snowballs at you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2007
  17. SniperStraz

    SniperStraz Member

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    +1 on the ASP. Nothing more devastating once you get that close to a dog. Their long exposed back make easy targets. I still think you should be packing heat all the time, but dogs are fast moving targets and when your jogging and your heart is thumping that fast it would be hard to get off a clean shot. As far as getting in trouble for killing a dog... you might get taken to claims court or something. I don't think you'll have any trouble convincing His Honor that the 110lb rotty didn't just want to say hello. I'm a dog lover and I've trained attack dogs, but I still see no problem with you defending yourself. I know a guy who stabbed a pitbull right in the chest when it came after his dog. Leash laws mad eit impossible to convict him of anything. w/e your choice is. Stay safe and stand your ground. You won't be able to outrun most dogs, and if you do run, you'll find yourself even more tired when you have to defend yourself.
     
  18. loplop

    loplop Member

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    Not to get off on too much of a tangent... But a few of you have recommended confronting potentially aggressive dogs in a "alpha" manner, to show your dominance and get them to back down.

    This flies in the face of all I have read on *unplanned* dog (and animal) confrontations. I have always read that to try to take the "alpha" role will often cause an escalation, potentially to violence. The best thing to do is to NOT make eye contact and continue on your path (if safe), or retreat slowly, protecting your vitals.

    This does not apply if it is YOUR dog, and you are training it. In that case you MUST be alpha.

    Dunno fellas, perhaps I've been lucky, but save one incident where a fear biter got me, I've avoided many situations with unknown dogs this way.

    HOWEVER, in the situation described by Cosmoline, I agree. I know when a "chaser" is only playing, and in that case, sounding off like a madman has always worked.

    As for jogging gun... This is a tough one and in the past I have often gone sans weapon. I've decided that's not an option anymore, so I am looking into new manner of carry. I also bicycle alot, often passing through some "questionable" areas, and I just picked up one of these:
    [​IMG]

    Camelbak products are ubiquitous in my area, and this one offers such deep concealment I initially passed over it at a store because I thought it wasn't the model with the holster! A bonus is it carries water, which I always do anyway.

    Perhaps handier for bicycling (although my Camelbak backpack is more comfortable), and not as handy for jogging as the little water bottles joggers seem to have nowadays, but this might work for you nonetheless. For what it's worth, it holds my SIG P228 and P239 very well, but the built in holster isn't great for my J-frame revolver. It seems to like thinner rather than thicker. I just bought a Kahr PM9, I'll give that a try as well.

    HTH
     
  19. 45/70

    45/70 member

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    People who shoot dogs while jogging get arrested. They get arrested for shooting in an uban area, and they get arrested for shooting domestic pets.

    If you want a "dog gun" . . . get a squirt gun full of household ammonia. That and pepper spray. If a dog chases you report it to the police.

    We had a jerk shoot a dog while he was out jogging. An off-duty cop. They tossed him in jail for six months, and he'll never work on the police force again. Discharge of a firearm in an urban area, and abuse of a domestic animal.

    People who shoot dogs are jerks.
     
  20. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    It's not really about being an alpha. That would involve biting the dog by the neck and humping him :D It's about stopping the prey drive and literally changing form (in their eyes) from a set of shiny leg targets to a commanding human. But certainly avoiding eye contact can't hurt. And if the dog looks simply lost I'll adopt a friendly posture and tone.

    Now there are a small percentage of dogs who are not just chasing the flashing prey image, and who will call your bluff. But they're uncommon and generally used to guard enclosed areas. Even with true guard dogs, when they're off their own turf they tend to become just like any other goofy dog. It's run round happy fun time.
     
  21. fattsgalore

    fattsgalore Member

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    Anything is better then nothing.
     
  22. PointOneSeven

    PointOneSeven Member

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    From experience, it's really hard to keep a solid bead on a dog with a snub nose while it's jumping around. More rounds = better.


    And yes, the little bastard bit me, and no I didn't kill it. A warning shot was all it took to remedy the situation. If it was 50+ lbs, the story would be different.
     
  23. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    If ALL I was worried about were dogs, I'd just drop my NAA mini with it's "holster grip" in a pocket. I've taken more'n one dog with it. At close range, I'll end the fight in one shot, I guarantee it. :evil: People underestimate these little guns, but I've killed fairly large feral dogs quite dead with mine. It's my all purpose varmint and deep concealment back up. I never leave home without it, always with a bigger gun front line for humans. However, if a dog came at me, I'd reach for my NAA first, most likely. It's not as loud nor as obvious in the neighborhood as a 9mm +P or .38 +P and does the job. I just wouldn't wanna go into a gun fight with a human with only the little NAA. I don't reckon you need a magnum, noisy as heck.

    If you're going to carry a bigger gun in .22 than the NAA, just get a .38 and be happy. That way, you'll be adequately armed be it dog or man. JMHO, of course. Heck, one of those fold up batons would be good for a dog, too. I'd rather enjoy beating the crap out of a mean dog, myself. :evil: Of course, if you question your marksmanship, hows about one of them new Taurus 4410s with a 3" .410 load. Should do the trick inside five or ten feet with number 6. I can't think of too many uses for that thing, but this might be one of 'em. :D

    I don't worry about pets so much, except certain breeds like pit bulls. I HATE pit bulls. I'll shoot one in a heartbeat if he comes after me. What I worry about is wild feral dogs and we have 'em around here, have killed some of my cats I had around here for rat control. I shoot 'em on sight, got no right to breath around MY place. Most pets you can tell even if they have no collar.
     
  24. cookekdjr

    cookekdjr Member

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    People who shoot dogs while jogging get arrested. They get arrested for shooting in an uban area, and they get arrested for shooting domestic pets.

    If you want a "dog gun" . . . get a squirt gun full of household ammonia. That and pepper spray. If a dog chases you report it to the police.

    We had a jerk shoot a dog while he was out jogging. An off-duty cop. They tossed him in jail for six months, and he'll never work on the police force again. Discharge of a firearm in an urban area, and abuse of a domestic animal.

    People who shoot dogs are jerks.


    Well....I am going to assume that wheelgunlover is not going to shoot unless its required to save himself or another. I'm just going to assume he'll do the right thing. There are, in fact, unprovoked dog attacks that require lethal force to stop them. My neighbor's pit bull ripped a little girls face off for no reason at all, for example. Thank God plastic surgery put her back together. Attacks like this aren't common, but they do happen. Kinda like muggings. So its good to be armed.
    As for what to carry, it will be hard to beat the 442. My surgery recovery has mandated that I walk, not run, and I rotate between a G19, a S&W j-frame, and a SIG p232. I wouldn't worry about caliber so much as weight. Although I have heard of pitbulls standing up to a 9mm, I think most would run away after being shot by almost any firearm.
    Just my two cents.
    -David
     
  25. whited

    whited Member

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    45/70:

    Perhaps you would prefer the jogger had been mangled or killed by the dog ?

    Just curious.
     
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