matis
Member
Sounds crazy to me, too, schild. The worst form of civilization -- except for all the others (with apologies to Winstopn Churchill).
Well stated, schild!
Matis
Well stated, schild!
Matis
John Birch Society Questions
- Thread starter Redlg155
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Wildalaska
member
Like I said, dressed up nice...
MitchSchaft
member
I want some proof from you guys who think jbs is off.
Talk is cheap, put your money where your mouth is
.Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
My problem with the JBS has little to do with their stated position on many issues. It has to do with the behavior of some of their membership and some of their official people. The "some" seemed to be rather too large a percentage of them for me to give much credence to the organization. I don't pay much attention to what folks say or what they have writen when their actions are contradictory.
Now, this all dates back to the late 1950s and early 1960s, not long after I got out of the Army.
There was just too much of an attitude of, "I know the truth, and if you disagree with me you're some sort of ComSymp, if you're not already a full-fledged Party member." Some JBSers, when faced with disagreement in some smaller city or in a town, would begin a slander and innuendo campaignand, sadly, this was not a rare event. NW Florida was full of such doings.
The bottom line is that nobody tells me what to believe. Anybody who tries it is making a rather egregious mistake. The idea I should believe a JBSer because he quotes another JBSer as his authority strikes me as foolishness, at best.
Again, it's not the stated aims: I grew up on patriotism. It's the past behavior of a bunch of self-styled know-it-alls who had no tolerance for disagreement.
Art
Now, this all dates back to the late 1950s and early 1960s, not long after I got out of the Army.
There was just too much of an attitude of, "I know the truth, and if you disagree with me you're some sort of ComSymp, if you're not already a full-fledged Party member." Some JBSers, when faced with disagreement in some smaller city or in a town, would begin a slander and innuendo campaignand, sadly, this was not a rare event. NW Florida was full of such doings.
The bottom line is that nobody tells me what to believe. Anybody who tries it is making a rather egregious mistake. The idea I should believe a JBSer because he quotes another JBSer as his authority strikes me as foolishness, at best.
Again, it's not the stated aims: I grew up on patriotism. It's the past behavior of a bunch of self-styled know-it-alls who had no tolerance for disagreement.
Art
Topgun
member
schild
"We believe the free market system, competitive capitalism, and private enterprise afford the widest opportunity and highest standard of living for all. "
I do hope that this EXCLUDES the so-called "free market" of Asian slave labor competing with US workplace rules to the INFINITE benefit to the "capitalist" corporations who have fired all US workers in the name of "free trade."
"We believe the free market system, competitive capitalism, and private enterprise afford the widest opportunity and highest standard of living for all. "
I do hope that this EXCLUDES the so-called "free market" of Asian slave labor competing with US workplace rules to the INFINITE benefit to the "capitalist" corporations who have fired all US workers in the name of "free trade."
chas_martel
Member
>There's nothing in the middle of the road but yellow lines and dead 'possums...
Took the words right outta my mouth.
I am constantly amazed at how many people are shooting "us" in the foot by stating how moderate/centrist they are.
Jeeez, talk about being PC.
Tell me people, is extremism in the pursuit of liberty a vice?
We need to push HARD to work against our foes!
WWJTOYM - What would Jesus think of your moderation?
I guess you can just color me an extremist...............................
Crap to think I have come to a board like this and here crap like this. I guess I'll just go back to subguns.com!
Took the words right outta my mouth.
I am constantly amazed at how many people are shooting "us" in the foot by stating how moderate/centrist they are.
Jeeez, talk about being PC.
Tell me people, is extremism in the pursuit of liberty a vice?
We need to push HARD to work against our foes!
WWJTOYM - What would Jesus think of your moderation?
I guess you can just color me an extremist...............................
Crap to think I have come to a board like this and here crap like this. I guess I'll just go back to subguns.com!
Topgun- I think you'll find the JBS thinks China is a much greater threat than N.Korea or Iraq. I personally will go out of my way not to support China. The JBS have fought against NAFTA and other "Free Trade" agreements.
I don't seek members or converts for the JBS, just trying to help people find the truth.
www.jbs.org
I don't seek members or converts for the JBS, just trying to help people find the truth.
www.jbs.org
dacinokc
Member
It seems the JBS feels there is a grand conspiracy afoot, with several evil parties behind all things bad. The Trilateral commison, the UN, the Jews. This is also the stuff of the clan. Both groups feel there is a secret comspiracy, and only they know the truth, and if you are not one of them, then you are un american.
Sorry but I spent too many years in the military in far off places to take that from them.
The problem is the conspiracies don't exsist, and there are no evil plots by evil parties, no matter how much they want it to be that way. The "facts" they expouse are beliefs, not gods word in stone.
The proving is up to the JBS to provide to the rest of us. It is not up to "us"- Non JBS types to prove there is no conspiracy, that by the nature of the statement is not possible.
So if you need the greater purpose of conspiracy to understand the world around you, that is fine, but it may just not be based in reality.
Freemasons, Trilateralist and the councl of 33 eh?
Sorry but I spent too many years in the military in far off places to take that from them.
The problem is the conspiracies don't exsist, and there are no evil plots by evil parties, no matter how much they want it to be that way. The "facts" they expouse are beliefs, not gods word in stone.
The proving is up to the JBS to provide to the rest of us. It is not up to "us"- Non JBS types to prove there is no conspiracy, that by the nature of the statement is not possible.
So if you need the greater purpose of conspiracy to understand the world around you, that is fine, but it may just not be based in reality.
Freemasons, Trilateralist and the councl of 33 eh?
MitchSchaft
member
And so only you know the truth, eh? And what does being in the military have to do with anything?
My point is, I would like to see a valid argument instead of talk.
I'm too new to all this to put up a decent argument
.dacinokc
Member
Regarding my time in the military, my point was I am not inclinded to give favor to those who declare I am somehow un-amercian because I do not believe in the same set of conspricies they do.
No, I can't say, or would I ever declare, that only I have the truth, nor do I attempt to. I have become far less of an absloutist over the years, and would be the first to say there are other points of view and beliegs than mine, and I try to be tolerent of them. These are opinions afterall, not sheer truths of the world.
JBS on the other had does declare they have the truth. It is up to them to prove their truths, with facts, that can be substantaited from sources other than themselves. And their practice of tolerence of others opinions might add to their credability.
No, I can't say, or would I ever declare, that only I have the truth, nor do I attempt to. I have become far less of an absloutist over the years, and would be the first to say there are other points of view and beliegs than mine, and I try to be tolerent of them. These are opinions afterall, not sheer truths of the world.
JBS on the other had does declare they have the truth. It is up to them to prove their truths, with facts, that can be substantaited from sources other than themselves. And their practice of tolerence of others opinions might add to their credability.
Gordon
Member
I love the sound bytes and opinions of so many of the "centrists" accusing JBL of anti semitism and racisism ect. Sounds like the Democratic plank to me: all feelings and no factual substance. I guess you people couldn't read the JBL doctrine as quoted by Schild? Or choose not to read it . The 2nd amendment is in trouble because of (the lack of) thinking like that. Of course you are entitled to your OPINION just dont slander patriots please. Go do your shooting and let these people do their research and documentation. I'll be doing my shooting too. They just served to show me my targets, I'll handle the tactics. By the way Fluoride is poisionous and builds up in body, lowers fertility rate and lowers the IQ and is a toxic waste that corporatate greed wants to sell to gubbermint, even my liberal county gov was on to that one and voted permantly NO the most liberal co. in CA.!!:banghead:
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Wildalaska
member
That is exactly what we are talking about. Gettin ready to hunt down and kill "enemies" huh?
BTW, I rmember seeing Birchers selling copies of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion at a gun show a few years back...yep a real bunch of patriots...
Gordon
Member
How cum "birchers"(read bigots) are selling books in direct conflict to their creed as quoted by Schild ,oh yes you choose not to read what they actually believe in. And dont worry Wildalaska you aint on my list, unless you want my gun.
cheygriz
member
I've had a few Birchers tell me that the Jews "need to be controlled." When I asked if Hitler was "controlling" the jews, I was told they didn't approve of Hitler's methods, but that Zionism was the biggest threat in the world, because the Zionists controlled the communists.
I've also been told by Birchers that blacks were inferior to whites and orientals. "A little farther back on the evolutionary scale, you see."
I've also been told by Birchers that Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Truman, Humphrey, JFK, Nixon, Ford and even Geo. Bush (the elder) were "card carrying communists."
And I'm supposed to find anything they say credible??????
Incredible, perhaps, but ceretainly not credible.
I've also been told by Birchers that blacks were inferior to whites and orientals. "A little farther back on the evolutionary scale, you see."
I've also been told by Birchers that Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Truman, Humphrey, JFK, Nixon, Ford and even Geo. Bush (the elder) were "card carrying communists."
And I'm supposed to find anything they say credible??????
Incredible, perhaps, but ceretainly not credible.
Wildalaska
member
I see...and suppose I seek reasonable laws pertaining to firearms, does that put me on your list?
How about a Supreme Court Justice who rules against your view of the 2nd amendment, is he or she "on your list"?
Dont you think you should refrain from such inflammatory statements, if not for your own sake, but for the sake of the entire movement..??? We are advocationg putting people on lists here????
And I again challenge you..stop talking..grab that M16, walk down the street with the press watching and fight your arrest in court with the whole of the USA watching..or is it becasue you beleive that the US courts are controlled by some...nefarious entity?
Gordon
Member
Yes!:banghead:
When I joined the JBS a member came to my home to talk to my wife and myself, the purpose being to see if we dressed in camo or were anti-semantic or held racial predjudice. AFAIK "klan" members are not welcome or allowed in the JBS. Every group has a few wackos, aren't there liberal gun-owners?
I remember quite clearly being dragged to a meeting by my parents in the early 80s that turned out to be a JBS meeting. Had all sorts of loony-tune BS about the Illuminati, the Trilateral Society and the Bilderbergers. I've talked to quite a few Birchers at gun shows, set up at their tables with the New American magazine, and to a one they seemed like fruitcakes.
Topgun
member
Well, the Birchers DON'T like.....
NAFTA, Hillary, Dianne, the UN, GATT, or the PRIVATELY OWNED (yes that is correct) Federal Reserve bank that determines YOUR destiny.
So......they must be nuts.
NAFTA, Hillary, Dianne, the UN, GATT, or the PRIVATELY OWNED (yes that is correct) Federal Reserve bank that determines YOUR destiny.
So......they must be nuts.
Gordon
Member
I am , and have been for 20+ years a raving Zionist, I promote an all black Presidential ticket of Alan Keyes and J.C. Watts (with Condalezza Rice as Sof State).As I said in other thread I'd join pink pistols (allthough I'm a breeder) and IMHO JB society is accurate in information (never heard about TR and the others being called commies in my 10 years of activity) . I'm sure there are wacko JB fringe members as in all other organization a few who pervert a good thing. funny everybody seems to "know" about that minority. That said I think all that rhetoric and getting stirred up is unhealthy. I have stood up in meetings and said " lets get out shooting(at targets) and tactically training"- my last meeting! I think they thought I was FBI agent provocateur so paronoia IS not healthy, shooting is REALITY.:banghead:
2nd Amendment
member
I see...and suppose I seek reasonable laws pertaining to firearms, does that put me on your list?
Yes, considering any reasonable laws were enacted decades ago.
How about a Supreme Court Justice who rules against your view of the 2nd amendment, is he or she "on your list"?
Absolutely.
Dont you think you should refrain from such inflammatory statements,
To what end?
if not for your own sake, but for the sake of the entire movement..???
So, it is more beneficial to the "movement" to be a group of kowtowing appeasers sacrificing Rights a little at a time as opposed to taking a stand and drawing the line which should have been drawn 60 years ago or more?
We are advocationg putting people on lists here????
Certainly. We are on theirs. Know thine enemy.
And I again challenge you..stop talking..grab that M16, walk down the street with the press watching and fight your arrest in court with the whole of the USA watching..
I fully expect to wind up doing something similar.
or is it becasue you beleive that the US courts are controlled by some...nefarious entity?
Depends, do you class judicial-activist leftists as a "neferious entity" or merely as individually incompetent boobs?
Yes, considering any reasonable laws were enacted decades ago.
How about a Supreme Court Justice who rules against your view of the 2nd amendment, is he or she "on your list"?
Absolutely.
Dont you think you should refrain from such inflammatory statements,
To what end?
if not for your own sake, but for the sake of the entire movement..???
So, it is more beneficial to the "movement" to be a group of kowtowing appeasers sacrificing Rights a little at a time as opposed to taking a stand and drawing the line which should have been drawn 60 years ago or more?
We are advocationg putting people on lists here????
Certainly. We are on theirs. Know thine enemy.
And I again challenge you..stop talking..grab that M16, walk down the street with the press watching and fight your arrest in court with the whole of the USA watching..
I fully expect to wind up doing something similar.
or is it becasue you beleive that the US courts are controlled by some...nefarious entity?
Depends, do you class judicial-activist leftists as a "neferious entity" or merely as individually incompetent boobs?
matis
Member
2nd amendment,
Quote:
Depends, do you class judicial-activist leftists as a "neferious entity" or merely as individually incompetent boobs?
Both, actually!
Matis
_________
Quote:
Depends, do you class judicial-activist leftists as a "neferious entity" or merely as individually incompetent boobs?
Both, actually!
Matis
_________
bogie
Member
My problem with the birchers isn't one of semantics - it's that every time I see/hear one in public, they're generally a member of the tinfoil hat brigade...
Coupla years ago, I took a nonshooting girlfriend to a gun show, and met one... After getting away, I was almost ready to espouse that gun control is a GOOD thing when applied to some folks...
Then there was the guy who had a table at a show, who was actively campaigning for a republican congressional candidate, who went off on a rant about having been once abducted by aliens...
Coupla years ago, I took a nonshooting girlfriend to a gun show, and met one... After getting away, I was almost ready to espouse that gun control is a GOOD thing when applied to some folks...
Then there was the guy who had a table at a show, who was actively campaigning for a republican congressional candidate, who went off on a rant about having been once abducted by aliens...
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