Judge/Governor Hate

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Brian Williams said:
[QUOTE="LoonWulf, post: 11986152, member: 125508

If Taurus came out with the same frame in 44 special or 45 colt with an appropriate length cylinder I would find that exceedingly interesting but a long cylinder short barreled gun just doesn't appeal to me.
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Taurus made a nice 45 Colt and 45ACP on that frame size with an appropriate sized cylinder. It was a very good gun, sadly it was dropped when the judge was introduced.

The judge is an answer to something???[/QUOTE]
It is for *me*. Unsure about you.
 
My dad had a judge. We both shot a cylinder full of Federal 45 Colt self defense ammo, and I’ve never seen so much leading in my life. I pulled a bore snake through the barrel multiple times and each time pulled out a huge strip of lead. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing, so I looked in the barrel and it was absolutely chunky with lead in there. I continued pulling lead out with each pass with the snake (didn’t have a cleaning kit on me) and finally just quit.

It was a hoot to shoot though. It was the heavy 3 inch chamber model and tamed 45 and 410 nicely with those weird squishy grips. I wouldn’t own one, but there are plenty of oddball guns I find interesting that others don’t. I had a 410/45 Bond Arms for about three days… a few rounds of 410 cured me of that interest quite quickly.
 
Mr. Mosin said:
Why all the hate for the Judge/Governor ?
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I don't know anyone who cares enough to hate them.
Mr. Mosin said:
You *sure* you don't hate em ? Not even a *little* bit?
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Yes, I'm sure. Perhaps you've misidentified criticism of function as hatred.

I think oversize mud tires on $50k pretty-boy Escalades are dumb too. I don't hate either, but I do observe that neither accomplishes anything useful relative to the money invested.
 
"It was a hoot to shoot though. It was the heavy 3 inch chamber model and tamed 45 and 410 nicely with those weird squishy grips."


That's the one I have. It's not terrible as a 45 snub, and 3" magnum buckshot seems to tear things up pretty well. It's an interesting quirky handgun. Not everyone's cup of tea, but that's okay.
 
Mr. Mosin said:
Did you not read my OP ?
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I did read the OP and these where my resulting thoughts.

I don't necessarily hate it, but I certainly don't like it enough to own one.

I have shot several and borrowed my father's to Chrono various loads and when it's all said and done I will take my 455 Webley or S&W 625 over a Judge/Governor even on snake day. My last snake day was actually tackled with a 38 special and I went 7 of 9 and came out the winner 7-0.
 
The Judge/governor hate on the internet doesn't match the fact that they sell all the ones they make and finding a used one is quite the chore. It's a bit like Hi Point hate, hillary hole hate, Taurus (in general) hate, etc, etc.
I have shot my buddies Judge a bunch. Good for it's intended purpose - truck gun, home defense. Up close and personal.
Not everyones cup of tea so they hate it on the internet.

SteadyD said:
I had a 410/45 Bond Arms for about three days…
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This one is high on my list. I find it fun to shoot.
 
I have a Governor, and basically bought it on a whim. Never really saw the point to them, or thought all that much about them, but now that I have it, and have played with it a bit, I can see they have some uses. They are more of a niche/supplemental gun than something you would buy as your only gun.

Im not a Taurus fan, and dont have any experience with the Judges, but the Governor is a typical S&W, and what youd expect from one is all there. Well balanced, smooth action, easy to shoot, and accurate.

They really arent a "big" gun, just differently proportioned. It has a K frame grip and basically an N sized frame, and is really basically the same size as one of my 4" guns. It just "looks" a lot bigger and heavier than it is.

If you're one of those who are worried about bears and snakes, its your gun. Load a round of #4 .410, and 5 rounds of 45Colt, wear it in an easily accessed holster, and you're ready to go. And carry a couple of moon clips of 45acp, if you need to reload in a hurry. :)
 
The Taurus Judge / S&W Governor are definitely one of those Love / Hate guns.

I think they can be a lot of fun and a useful defense tool. Not that I would carry it, but as a nightstand or truck gun they are great. My neighbor/buddy uses his that way everyday.

I have a Bond Arms Rowdy in 45/410. The 45/410 is one of the most popular options in their line.

Buy one and have fun!!!!!
 
earlthegoat2 said:
I hate bring up what is becoming pretty cliche in the gun world anymore but my thoughts parallel the Cult of Paul Harrell. He did 4 different videos/reviews on the Judge which is three more than needed to be done as the same conclusions were, more or less, drawn each time.
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Thanks for posting that video.
I may go look at the others to see what Paul Harrell’s opinion / test of that gun with .45 Colt, but the thing that really got my attention was that thin top strap of the Judge’s frame. I went back and looked at it a couple of times. The top strap was thinner than the top strap on the SP101 that he Demo’d.

I don’t know if that’s a concern or even a problem but I am pretty sure it would concern me.

I found some comparison photos in a search and the S&W Governor appears to have a.slightly thicker top strap.
Here is the photo I found that best illustrates this:

228D7307-2165-4C38-80BA-D4DF1592D39C.png
This photo is from here: https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/taurus-judge-3-vs-smith-wesson-governor

Probably not an issue but more a curiosity for me. Perhaps it looked so thin to me because the cylinder is so long.
The Judge has a steel frame.
The Governor has a Scandium frame.

Afterthought: Not sure why I am even bothering to be concerned. I will probably never own one. At least not until I leave this state of mental instability.
 
Pat Riot said:
Thanks for posting that video.
I may go look at the others to see what Paul Harrell’s opinion / test of that gun with .45 Colt, but the thing that really got my attention was that thin top strap of the Judge’s frame. I went back and looked at it a couple of times. The top strap was thinner than the top strap on the SP101 that he Demo’d.

I don’t know if that’s a concern or even a problem but I am pretty sure it would concern me.

I found some comparison photos in a search and the S&W Governor appears to have a.slightly thicker top strap.
Here is the photo I found that best illustrates this:

View attachment 1009940
This photo is from here: https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/taurus-judge-3-vs-smith-wesson-governor

Probably not an issue but more a curiosity for me. Perhaps it looked so thin to me because the cylinder is so long.
The Judge has a steel frame.
The Governor has a Scandium frame.

Afterthought: Not sure why I am even bothering to be concerned. I will probably never own one. At least not until I leave this state of mental instability.
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Only reason I want a Judge is because I can't bring myself to stomach paying S&W's asking price for the Governor.
 
Mr. Mosin said:
Regarding snake shot, pistol caliber snake shot is expensive. .410 is not *as* pricy, and you get more shot per round.
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I make mine for a less than even .410 reloads cost. Definitely more shot in the .410 though, part of what makes them cost more.

I did find that the .410 wad improves the pattern a lot though and do use them in my 45 ACP shot loads.

469B9FEC-DA82-4138-B215-C539809C8EDD.jpeg
 
I don't hate them. I think they are a novelty with very limited use.

The rifling is shallow to prevent shot disruption, which in turn can cause leading (already noted here). The accuracy with centerfire pistol cartridges leaves a lot to be desired as well.

I can never understand how the .410 was near useless as a defense shell out of an 18+in shotgun for decades, but put it in a handgun (limiting effectiveness considerably) and it takes the shooting world by storm.

P.T. Barnum was mentioned earlier. I can agree with that.
 
Mr. Mosin said:
Why all the hate for the Judge/Governor ? To *me* they're modern day Bulldog-esque revolvers, and to *me*, they excel at such. Regarding snakes... most of my snake moments involve almost stepping over em or spying em a handful of feet away- not literal yards away where I see much of the pattern testing done by YouTubers.

Regarding human and four legged threats, a .45 Colt wadcutter doesn't care if it leaves the barrel at 800fps or at 700fps... it's still gonna cut what is, for all intents and purposes; a half inch diameter hole through most whatever it hits.

Its *not* a target revolver, if you couldn't tell by the snub barrel and massive fiber optic (or tritium) front sight. 1/2" groups at 20yds are irrelevant when Joe Thug is intent to bust your skull with a Louisville Slugger or put your innards on the ground with a dull switchblade. Torso sized accuracy is acceptable. Anything more is icing on the cake- nice, but irrelevant.


Thoughts ?

*Puts on fire proof suit*

Bring it on
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This is merely my perspective as a hand-loader. These revolvers are somewhat limited in “all around” use! They are fairly large and fairly heavy with limited accuracy and horsepower when using 45LC.

If I’m gonna carry a revolver as described above, I’d prefer to carry a S&W 460 XVR (5” version). Accurate and fully capable of 150 yard big game shooting with .454’ or 460’s and with hand-loaded shot shells possible, duplicating a 2 1/2” 410 shot shell. But.....that’s just me! :D memtb

1lsULOtl.jpg
 
EMC45 said:
I don't hate them. I think they are a novelty with very limited use.

The rifling is shallow to prevent shot disruption, which in turn can cause leading (already noted here). The accuracy with centerfire pistol cartridges leaves a lot to be desired as well.

I can never understand how the .410 was near useless as a defense shell out of an 18+in shotgun for decades, but put it in a handgun (limiting effectiveness considerably) and it takes the shooting world by storm.

P.T. Barnum was mentioned earlier. I can agree with that.
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Not sure were this idea that the rifle in a Judge/Governor is shallow, it is the same depth as any other rifled 45 Colt firearms. Its roughly .004 inch deep rifling (much like most cartridges). If a Judge/Governor is leading it's almost always caused by cheap ammo not the gun. With my dad's Judge I never found the accuracy with 45 Colt to be all that bad, I could keep them on a 6-inch target spot at 25 yards even with the crude fixed sights. Not a bullseye gun but with the right ammo not horrible either.
 
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My observations of the Judge.
Years ago I owned a Smith and Wesson chambered in 32-20. It was old obviously, and had quite a bit of end shake and side play in the cylinder. Everyone said it was “worn out,” which it was. A friend of mine bought a brand new Taurus Judge, and the cylinder play made my old Smith and Wesson look plum tight. And that was brand new. I have no idea how the Governor is built, never handled one.
 
We used to do Judge threads all the time. The end state was that it was a revolver as compared to a comparable size, higher capacity semi. The 45 rounds would work as a round but it's a revolver. Folks were convinced also that the 410 shells made it the ultimate stopper as compared to a standard round. Then some folks argued it is better for snakes than snake shot in standard revolvers.

Then it was cool for a 'truck' gun - meaning what?

That's all there is.
 
EMC45 said:
I can never understand how the .410 was near useless as a defense shell out of an 18+in shotgun for decades, but put it in a handgun (limiting effectiveness considerably) and it takes the shooting world by storm.

P.T. Barnum was mentioned earlier. I can agree with that.
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Thats what I have always said. Why is it considered a worthless from a long barreled shotgun but thought of as a death ray from a 2.5" barrel? But I did see one youtube video and the video guy said it was effective all the way out to NINE FEET!!! Wow! thats pretty good right?

And there is no evidence Barnum uttered the famous phrase.

"Barnum's biographer Arthur H. Saxon tried to track down when Barnum had uttered this phrase but was unable to verify it. According to Saxon, "There's no contemporary account of it, or even any suggestion that the word 'sucker' was used in the derogatory sense in his day. Barnum was just not the type to disparage his patrons."[1]Some sources claim that it is most likely from famous con-man Joseph ("Paper Collar Joe") Bessimer,[2] and other sources say that it was actually uttered by David Hannum in reference to Barnum's part in the Cardiff Giant hoax.[3] Hannum was exhibiting the "original" giant and had unsuccessfully sued Barnum for exhibiting a copy and claiming that it was the original. Crowds continued to pay to see Barnum's exhibit, even after both it and the original had been proven to be fakes".

Another source credits late 1860s Chicago saloon owner Michael Cassius McDonald as the originator of the aphorism. According to the book Gem of the Prairie: Chicago Underworld (1940) by Herbert Asbury, McDonald was equipping his gambling house known as The Store when his partner expressed concern over the large number of roulette wheels and faro tables being installed and their ability to get enough players. McDonald then allegedly said, "Don't worry about that, there's a sucker born every minute."
 
If you like the Judge/Governor then buy one. It seems a lot of people like them and are satisfied with their choice. And there are plenty of other threads to read about them and whether they like them of not.

I have no interest in one but don't get bent out of shape if someone else chooses one. Its all about variety and choice. Just be glad we can still have a wide range of choices.
 
Howdy

I don't hate them, I just think they are dumb.

I have lots of 45 Colt revolvers.

If I wanted to shoot 410 I would buy a 410 shotgun.

That's why I will never buy one of those ridiculous things.

One thing I don't understand is all this concern with shooting snakes.

The great majority of snakes are harmless, certainly in this neck of the woods anyway.

Why do so many think they have to shoot snakes on sight?

I think they are pretty cool and like to see them.
 
P5 Guy said:
Before the Judge, There was the Thunder 5 :: Guns.com

I bet some of you thought that the Taurus Judge revolver was an earth-shattering innovation when you first saw it. I mean who couldn’t love a five-shot revolver that could hurl either .410 shotgun shells or .45 Long Colt as fast as you could pull the trigger?
Well, the thing is the Judge wasn’t first. The MIL Thunder 5 beat it by more than a decade.
But good luck finding one now.

I wonder how one failed while a later one took off?
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The Thunder Five is cool in a end-of-the-world movie kind of way. The lightening cuts to the frame, the front sight in the top strap, the ambi-safety . . . a brutal looking firearm. https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/products/153100-mil-thunder-five-45lc410-pr54138.html

This one popped up in a local shop last week. It didn't last long.
https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/...g-before-the-judge-what-a-beauty-pr20130.html
 
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