"Judge or Governor only" Lehigh Defense 45 Colt load

Status
Not open for further replies.
nonseven

nonseven

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
219
Location
Northern Arkansas
Anybody seen these yet?

It's a 45 colt cartridge made by Lehigh Defense. With a 220 grain machined copper slug, longer than the standard 45 Colt - only to be used in a Taurus Judge or a S&W Governor, due to the longer chamber to fire 410 shells.

I just shot one in ballistic gel today. Penetration was about 7 1/2 inches. Huge wound channel. All 4 petals opened up beautifully. While than penetration is not impressive, the whole block of gel jumped off the table, flipped 180 degrees, and landed back on the table. I've not had a block of gel do that before. A lot of energy dumped into the target. They advertise 800 fps. I couldn't get a chrono reading, but I'd say that was about right. The round was shot out of a Taurus Judge public defender.

Picture is shown next to a Remington Brass Jacket 45 Colt hollowpoint.

Very pricey - About $3.50 per cartridge!
 

Attachments

  • in gel.JPG
    in gel.JPG
    105 KB · Views: 80
  • lehigh 45 colt.JPG
    lehigh 45 colt.JPG
    109.7 KB · Views: 122
Last edited:
Saw these in a magazine article back when they were introducing that load with the discs and BB's.
Seems to be another boutique brand that looks more impressive than it performs. 7.5"? That thing is about 2" wide when opened, lol...sectional density must be pretty poor.
 
The one guy I know who seriously uses a Judge carries it in a secure holster while working his farm and has patterned it at various distances with shotshells primarily for use against pest animals or potting small game of opportunity for the table.

I can't fault the inventor for trying to maximize the effectiveness of the .45 Colt/.410 guns. However, the local coyotes will fall to a well-placed shot with regular .45 Colt ammo; they usually avoid people though. On the other hand if I was really paranoid about pit bull attacks as I went out to pick up the morning paper, that would make a good first round in the cylinder.
 
imho, i wouldn't trust that round against an attacking pitbull. not with only 7 inches of penetration. ymmv. i'd carry a hot .45 colt load over that anyday.
 
Well you can always use the fired round as a throwing star. :scrutiny:

Seriously, that's not a lot of penetration. A standard 250 gr. Lead SWCHP would double that depth or more, and expand.
 
That's not a lot of penetration for such an expensive round. I think they would've done better to decrease the petals by 25%.

Still, I'd use it over any .410 defensive load.

John
 
I would hold my judgement of this round until you see what your own favorite load does in this gel.

I'm using Perma-gel ballistic gel. I think this stuff is great, but I believe it's significantly denser than the FBI standard ballistic gel.

I just did a test with a 45 GAP Silvertip in the same gel. The 45 ACP silvertip load should be identical - same bullet, same speed. Penetration was about 5 inches. Beautiful even controlled expansion of the silvertip bullet.
With the 45GAP round, the block of gel moved a bit but stayed put on the table. With the Lehigh Defense round it jumped about 12" off the table.

I'm seeing results I did not expect - including penetration of the 410, 000 buckshot handgun loads to over 15" in the same gel. I'll post more pics later of some of these loads.

Based on these test I've changed my idea about the potential effectiveness of 410 buckshot handgun rounds fired from a 2" barrel Judge. I believe penetration is adequate with these rounds. I'm particularly impressed by the Remington home defense 000 load - it's fairly hot.
 

Attachments

  • 45 gap in gel.JPG
    45 gap in gel.JPG
    43.9 KB · Views: 14
  • 45 gap silvertip.jpg
    45 gap silvertip.jpg
    55.4 KB · Views: 13
Based on these test I've changed my idea about the potential effectiveness of 410 buckshot handgun rounds fired from a 2" barrel Judge. I believe penetration is adequate with these rounds.
Click to expand...

Penetration at close range should always be at least adequate with 00 or 000, and probably overpenetrative with 000. That still doesn't mean the load is effective or a good choice.

Re Perma-gel, how deep is your calibration BB going?

John
 
Penetration at close range should always be at least adequate with 00 or 000, and probably overpenetrative with 000. That still doesn't mean the load is effective or a good choice.

Re Perma-gel, how deep is your calibration BB going?
Click to expand...

I've not done the BB test. I can't get my chronograph to read the BB.

While the penetration does not mean the load is effective, the Judge nay-sayers typically use lack of penetration for the shotshells as the argument. What I'm seeing is adequate penetration of the buckshot, flattening of the buckshot, and similar wound channels to a 380 auto round for each buckshot pellet.
 
Seems to me, if it sprouted four wings, of course the penetration would be less, because the force is being shared in plowing a much wider cavity, like flaps on an airplane.

I think things like this should have ownership of a .45 Colt/.410 as a prerequisite to being allowed to have an opinion.
 
I think things like this should have ownership of a .45 Colt/.410 as a prerequisite to being allowed to have an opinion.
Click to expand...
Oh, really? Should one always have to have "bought in" and thus be invested before one forms an opinion?

No other facet of scientific (or "semi-scientific") endeavor would even allow, let alone encourage, to say NOTHING of require, the tester or analyst to have skin in the game when forming an analysis.

When folks have put their money into purchasing a product, they are no longer truly objective. Even if their bias is very small, and regardless of which way their bias encourages them to opine, it is there.

Those who haven't bought in may or may not have a bias, of course, but to claim that the absence of investment in the test platform is a disqualifier from comment on the reported test results is absurd.
 
It's a gun. Not that complicated. It does x,y,z. No mysteries there. Especially when someone's spoon-feeding us the closest thing we could reasonably ask for in terms of "hard data."

(Noting, of course, that providing "hard data" regarding wounding ballistics seems to, historically over the course of more than a century at this point, only fan the flames of debate and disagreement about the suitability of a cartridge for a task.)

Either way, I can't imagine why anyone would have to own a gun to decide whether using it for a particular purpose is a good idea.
 
what sam1911 said x2. realgun, "ownership as a prerequisite to being allowed to have an opinion"...that's really one of the more ridiculous things i've read here in a while.
 
I own 2 .45 Colts, and a .454.

I suppose I'd own a .45/.410 if someone gave me one.

John
 
RealGun said:
Well, it does help to know what one is talking about.
Click to expand...

Yes, but:

You don't have to own the gun in question to know what you are talking about.

Owning the gun in question does not automatically mean you know what you are talking about.
 
Of course the boards are also rife with folks offering opinions on accuracy, reliability and velocity with no basis for that either. Pure speculation. I can understand the frustration.
 
I think things like this should have ownership of a .45 Colt/.410 as a prerequisite to being allowed to have an opinion.
Click to expand...
I quite dissagree as IMHO owning a Judge puts a dim light on a persons judgement in the first place.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
45 Colt Self Defense Loads
2
Replies
44
Views
2K
whatnickname
whatnickname
Mr. Mosin
  • Locked
.410 Revolver Improved Defensive Loadings
2
Replies
46
Views
2K
defjon
D
D
  • Locked
Best S&W Governor 45 acp loads
Replies
6
Views
761
defjon
D
W
  • Locked
Lehigh Xtreme bullets
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
129
Views
5K
Kleanbore
K
Bigmike79
  • Locked
Lehigh defense Xtreme penetrator ammo......gimmick or breakthrough?
Replies
24
Views
10K
Kano383
Kano383
Back
Top