Judgement of Competency With Carry Piece

[Mr. Mosin]

How do you gauge your competency and capability with your carry weapon *as a civilian* ? What would be recommendations for standards of competency with either/or autoloaders and revolvers ? What is a good baseline judgement of competency with your carry piece ? And yes, I know. One should always be striving to do better..

 

[Craig_AR]

Some instructors use the Bill Drill as a basic measure: draw and fire six rounds into the A zone of a silhouette target in a timed event. A web search for the phrase "bill drill" will turn up quite a few sites describing the details and benefits of using this drill.

Craig

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Some instructors use the Bill Drill as a basic measure: draw and fire six rounds into the A zone of a silhouette target in a timed event. A web search for the phrase "bill drill" will turn up quite a few sites describing the details and benefits of using this drill.

Craig

What if said carry piece doesn't hold six rounds (looking at you, J frame Smith) ?

I have a good friend who has BTDT, he recommends the same I do- a Mozambique at 7 paces, cold.

 

[JR24]

Mozembique is good, things like FAST or Devil drills can help you work on reloads (obviously you aren't gonna hit "top" times with a wheel gun) with a little time pressure.

My baseline I like to do is the FBI qualifier and time each phase, top score with time tiebreaker between guns is a metric I use to see how a new carry option might compare.

Lotta good stuff here

https://pistol-training.com/drills/the-fast

 

[StrawHat]

One of the things I like to do is take a 3x5 index card and tape it to a backer at 15 yards. Draw and fire a complete cylinder from 15. I expect 6 on the card but will accept 5. No practice rounds, no do-overs. From the holster as if it were happening.

Kevin

 

[PzGren]

Life is full of surprises and I do not believe that there is a single drill that will cover all eventualities. Most important is to have a gun and since speed is essential in an armed confrontation, working regularly on the speed of a positive presentation from concealment and firing the first shot that is a solid hit is giving confidence. From there you can take it in all directions and work on being the best you can be.

 

[CDW4ME]

"My" most frequent has been double taps at 6-7 yards, specifically a 6 inch circle at 6-7 yards.
Hitting inside a silhouette is not my goal, both shots must hit the 6 inch circle for the pair to get averaged (close does not count).
My goal is average split times of less than 1/3 second and both shots hitting the 6 inch circle.
This example is optimal because no shots missed the circles, all were quicker than 1/3 second (with carry ammo), was worthy of a pic.
Glock 19 is my EDC, whether going to an area of greater perceived threat (Wal-Mart) or just walking the dogs, wherever, whenever.
I carry a Glock 19 despite that the 19C is undisputed double tap champion, every time. (19C is factory compensated/ported)

 

[mcb]

Use your carry rig at a USPSA match and finish in the top half of all the shooters.

 

[trackskippy]

I think 1.5 - 2 seconds from holster to rounds on target from how you carry the gun would be a reasonable expectation.

I also think you should be comfortable doing that as you move offline and shooting as you move.

Close range, 5-7 yards and in, you should be comfortable shooting quickly and repetitively, with or without sights, with one or both hands.

At longer distances, Id focus on slowing things down and shooting as quickly as possible, while maintaining accuracy.

Use realistic targets and the hits on target will tell you if youre on track and improving.

Be as broad and diverse in your practice as you can too.

Id say competency is simply quickly hitting what you were looking at, or very close to it when the gun went off, and as needed, and being able to do it, on demand.

 

[bassjam]

In the conceal carry course I just took the instructor gave us targets and a drill he said we should all work to be able to achieve. From 5 yards, draw and fire 5 shots within a 5" circle in under 5 seconds, and be able to repeat the drill 5 times. He talked about being able to draw and fire a single ACCURATE shot under 2 seconds as well, we drilled that at 3 yards at 4x6 index cards.

 

[1942bull]

I think the FBI has a good standard for its special agents. They are mostly plain clothes with a concealed pistol with 4” barrel. These are the qualification requirements. Most importantly the requirements take into distance to target into consideration. The targets are the torso shaped FBI Q target on 23 x 45 inch paper.

STAGE I
Starting Point: 3 yards
Total Rounds: 12

1. 3 rounds, 3 seconds, SHO
2. 3 rounds, 3 seconds, SHO
3. 3 rounds SHO, switch hands, 3 rounds WHO, 8 seconds

STAGE II
Starting Point: 5 yards
Total Rounds: 12

1. 3 rounds, 3 seconds
2. 3 rounds, 3 seconds
3. 3 rounds, 3 seconds
4. 3 rounds, 3 seconds

STAGE III
Starting Point: 7 yards
Total Rounds: 16

1. 4 rounds, 4 seconds
2. 4 rounds, 4 seconds
3. Start with only 4 rounds in the gun (1 in the chamber, 3 in the magazine). 4 rounds; empty gun (emergency) reload; 4 more rounds; 8 seconds

STAGE IV
Starting Point: 15 yards
Total Rounds: 10

1. 3 rounds, 6 seconds
2. 3 rounds, 6 seconds
3. 4 rounds, 8 seconds

STAGE V
Starting Point: 25 yards
Total Rounds: 10

1. Move to cover; 3 rounds standing; kneel, 2 rounds; 15 seconds
2. again

 

[Jim Watson]

Use your carry rig at a USPSA match and finish in the top half of all the shooters.

Or even IDPA, which has Compact Carry and BUG divisions so you will get a comparable score.

I just saw the announcement for the Honolulu Hidden Handgun Hoedown at Brocks Gap (Birmingham.)
https://brocksgap.com/matches-practical-tactical/prac-tac-honolulu-hidden-handgun-hoedown/
I still have my lei from the 2019.

Otherwise, there are many drills and agency qualifications you can test yourself against.
Look up the Air Marshal qualifier, gotta be quick.
PF has discovered the old Bakersfield qualification, starting with a 1.5 second pair at 10 feet.

 

[LeftyRed]

Like others have said, I like the Bill Drill as a start. I also like putting 3x5 cards up at five years and double tapping them. What ever my time is, I allow double that for weak hand shooting.

Also, half inch to one inch wide tape, placed in the center and about six inches long is something I use for grip and one handed training. Keep all shots touching the tape as quickly as possible.

The one scenario I think is very possible is an Active Shooter. I just use a standard target and at the buzzer, draw and steady myself for a 20-25 yard shot into a head size target. If I can, I drop to one knee or use the bench to a steady shot. If I’m deciding what I carry, this is the drill that decides. So far, it’s my G42 or G26 that gives me the best times and accuracy so. I consider anything under 6/7 seconds the cut off. Sounds like a lot of time, but I want to be sure of that shot. So far, I’m able to do it, cold, around 4ish. Reasoning is that it’s most likely in a crowded space and I’m liable for EVERY shot I take. I don’t have a department or legality backing me up, just USCCA.

Besides the AS “ drill”, I train from 3-7 yards.

Lefty

 

[Hangingrock]

*as a civilian*, I'm a citizen there is a deference!

 

[mcb]

Or even IDPA, which has Compact Carry and BUG divisions so you will get a comparable score.

I just saw the announcement for the Honolulu Hidden Handgun Hoedown at Brocks Gap (Birmingham.)
https://brocksgap.com/matches-practical-tactical/prac-tac-honolulu-hidden-handgun-hoedown/
I still have my lei from the 2019.

Otherwise, there are many drills and agency qualifications you can test yourself against.
Look up the Air Marshal qualifier, gotta be quick.
PF has discovered the old Bakersfield qualification, starting with a 1.5 second pair at 10 feet.

That looks fun. I wonder if they would let me run moonclips in my J-frame? I might have to go to that.

ETA: moonclips are allowed! Definite have to see if this fits in my schedule.

 

[Jim Watson]

It is different. Run on time plus scoring like IDPA but the targets are very variable, different colors, shapes, funny hard cover/NT shapes, etc.
Note 4" maximum barrel length and "Glock 19 if you must" category.
There are, as everywhere, gamers. real hideouts like my LC9s and friend's G43 were at a disadvantage against the "compacts" with the maximum 4" barrel. But we didn't finish last place, either.

 

[MedWheeler]

I don't get too technical about it yet. I draw and shoot as fast as the range permits, but at a purposeful pace, at a silhouette target and see if I like the hit locations and frequency. I do this from distances between three and about ten yards. I don't have a steadfast rule about how many hits I need to feel satisfied. I guess my "comfort zone" is more in my subconscious than right up front. Still, I won't carry a gun if, in my hands, I can't score as many satisfying hits with it as I can with another similar gun.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Dang y'all are fancy. I just figure if the pig ever wins, I'm gettin' too slow.

 

[Jackalope 1]

When I was in my much younger days I practiced all the same rig-a-ma-roles you younger fellas now do, but as age creeps up onto you it takes but a short time to figure out just about all social predators are going to prey on us senior people's at nigh on SPITTING DISTANCE. So I practice at that distance as well. Forget HOLLYWOODITIS, someone standing behind a wall, you know where any GOOD JHP Bullet will slice thru like a knife in soft butter. Winchester 357 Magnum Black TALON, 3-4 walls. Bad guy hiding behind car or p.u. 158 grn JHP will PASS THRU from side/side or front to trunk/tailgate. I know, personally tested on abandoned 1948 Pontiac/GMC Pickup. Use 41 or 44 Magnum, tear's out razorblade sharp fragments of steel imbedding 1"-2" of bag of hamburger while passing thru vehicle, even if not struck by bullet steel fragments still could kill you. Outside wall to FAR outside wall, 41& 44 Magnums, Keith style bullets/ full 7 wall penetration, never found any bullets, 50-50 41 & 44 Magnums rounds fired!! Seems Judges, Jury, DEFINITELY LAWYER'S are convinced 50-100' away from intended VICTIM is not LIFE-THREATENING ( "2 most common elements HYDROGEN & STUPIDITY----Qoute Albert Einstein ) so I practice spitting DISTANCE-----just a thought !!!!!

 

[9mmepiphany]

What is a good baseline judgement of competency with your carry piece ?

What if said carry piece doesn't hold six rounds (looking at you, J frame Smith) ?

With that limitation, I would think the F.A.S.T. drill would be a better indication of competence than the Mozambique...as it test more skills.

7 yards, loaded with 2 rounds and an extra reload. On the signal, 2 rounds to the head (3"x 5" card), reload and 4 to the body (8" circle).

Intermediate is under 10 seconds, Advanced is under 7 seconds; the World Record is just over 1.30 seconds

 

[jmorris]

Use your carry rig at a USPSA match and finish in the top half of all the shooters.

That would do it.

I have taken CHL classes where people did not pass, they shouldn’t have.

There are a lot of people that carry that are not proficient, some are officers of the law. In my State, for the next month, you would have to be able to follow basic range commands and if you could put all of your shots into a basket ball size target at 3 and 7 yards, you could miss 100% of the further shots and still pass.

That is a very low standard of proficiency but is eliminated with constitutional carry. At that point the only standard of competency will be being able to keep it on your person and not break any laws doing so.

 

[dickydalton]

My first test was in 1974 and the carjacker went to jail, he had 5 guns I had one and it was stuck in his mouth. Second time it was car thieves that the sheriff wouldn't look for. I found them and when they were going to pile on I showed my model 29 to them. No shots fired all 4 went to jail for a while. One later escaped and stole a cop's shotgun out of his cruiser.
Yes, I have taken many classes since and often for CC carry permits, and a little just to get better. I'm an overweight old man and not into a lot of manuvers but I am a pretty good shot and won't be trifled with.

 

[JR24]

With that limitation, I would think the F.A.S.T. drill would be a better indication of competence than the Mozambique...as it test more skills.

7 yards, loaded with 2 rounds and an extra reload. On the signal, 2 rounds to the head (3"x 5" card), reload and 4 to the body (8" circle).

Intermediate is under 10 seconds, Advanced is under 7 seconds; the World Record is just over 1.30 seconds

I definatley use that as a measuring stick for an overall CCW setup, mag location, holster location, etc.

I always expect to be under 5, from concealment, to even consider the setup, usually around 4.5 with my Glock which is the benchmark.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The Bill Drill is a great test between pistols as to controlability while the El Presidente was the default test for gun handling competency.

The F.A.S.T. drill is a better gun handling competency test as it requires fewer rounds and space. It tests competency of Draw, Press-out (2x), Accuracy (3" x 5" card), Splits (8" circle), magazine change, and the ability to fire rounds at differing speeds to appropriate to the accuracy required

 

[Old Dog]

The Bill Drill is a great test between pistols as to controlability while the El Presidente was the default test for gun handling competency.

The F.A.S.T. drill is a better gun handling competency test as it requires fewer rounds and space. It tests competency of Draw, Press-out (2x), Accuracy (3" x 5" card), Splits (8" circle), magazine change, and the ability to fire rounds at differing speeds to appropriate to the accuracy required

Yep, the old favorites are still relevant. These are all solid gauges of one's competence with handguns. I also combine these with the "Dot Torture" drill so my students can assess their accuracy levels. I like the FAM qual course and my local LE academy's basic qual course too. The FBI q course is okay, but actually not as stringent as some other agency's courses. Particularly the fact that its basic Q course only involves weak-hand shooting at the (relatively) easy distance of 3 yards, only one mandated reload. A good 50-round qual course should involve at least one, preferably two emergency reloads and perhaps one tactical reload, plus weak hand shooting at 7 to 10 yards, WITH movement (stepping side to side) at least out to the ten or fifteen yard lines.

Do civilians really need to try LE qual courses? No, not at all... but but for those that've never shot any timed course(s) of fire, it might be eye-opening. I challenge folks I meet from time to time when they tell me that they can shoot much better than their local cops... Really? If they have never shot any form of competition, sometimes it provides an opportunity for a more realistic self-assessment of their skill level.

Assessing one's skill level with handguns absolutely, IMO, needs to include some movement, drawing from the holster (concealment a plus), weak-hand shooting, an accuracy test, but most also importantly, include the pressure of time limits, which creates added stress.