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Judging the Judge!

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by rtaylor71, Jan 18, 2013.

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  1. Jaymo

    Jaymo Member

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    Well, actually, I can carry my Pedersoli 20 gauge Howdah pistol on my hip. It's a LOT more effective than any .410 load or .45 snakeshot load.
    It's also over 4 pounds and the most fun I've ever had with one hand.
    The problem with the CCI .45 snakeshot loads is that they use #9 shot and they don't pattern very well, even at very close range. I like #12 shot for snake shot loads.
    Like I said. Da Judge is just a fun gun for me. I like it. Not everyone does.
    I don't like Glocks, but I don't get upset by those who do.
     
  2. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Right go back to the OP, or read through these 'Judge is the best gun ever'
    threads

    After a while, explaining the limitations of .410, why there are issues with .45 colt loads in it (long lead, pressure etc.)

    that no matter how much Taurus has paid for TV ads, that doesn't make it a good personal defense do everything gun, nor is worth a damn as a 'bear gun'...

    but as a HEAVY plinker, or snake charming, sure, does that fine.
     
  3. Jaymo

    Jaymo Member

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    My bear gun is a Marlin .444P loaded with 310 grain hard cast Lee wide flat points.
    My backup to that is a Marlin 1894P loaded with 310 grain hard cast Lee wide flat points.
    My backup to that is a Ruger Redhawk shooting the same 310 grainers.
    My backup to that is a Taurus 44 shooting the same 310 grainers.
    My backup to that is Buckingham. As in climbing spurs and saddle.:)

    Unless it's BP season. Then my bear gun is a TC Renegade .50 caplock, backed up by the Pedersoli Howdah shooting heat treated .61 caliber roundballs, backed up by my ROA, backed up by a Cold Steel 1917 US Naval cutlass, backed up by Buckingham.
    If I'm treed, I have a wrist rocket slingshot for protection. We all know how deadly they are. ;)

    I heard that Taurus is going to make a 5 shot revolver that fires Sidewinder missiles.
    It's going to be the ultimate defensive gun.;)
     
  4. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    tee he he
    na, still gonna complain, minimum arming distance... loss of track, lock time...
     
  5. Jaymo

    Jaymo Member

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    That part will be left out of the commercials;)
    They'll show a carjack victim blowing up a blue whale.
     
  6. rtaylor71

    rtaylor71 Member

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    I didn't think my amateur review would spark such a debate . . . a far reaching, spirited one at that!

    It's all great stuff, gentlemen. I thank you all!
     
  7. Paladin7

    Paladin7 Member

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    I looked at the Judge vs the S&W Governor for a buddy of mine.

    Based on that analysis, he went with the Governor, mainly due to S&W's better QC, 6 round option, and ability to use 45 acp with moon clips.

    After shooting the Governor, which is a light weight frame gun, I have to say that I'm very skeptical on it.

    For defense, for either gun, I'd go with 45 ACP for the Governor and 45 Colt for the Judge.

    I don't believe the .410 is very useful and I'm not impressed with the new PDX round based on some initial testing.

    I did find with the Governor that after shooting 45 ACP and then shooting 410, I experienced sticky extraction of the 410 rounds. I believe the Judge would have this problem as well and it is normal but good to know.

    Shooting 45 ACP was odd. The sound made by the gun was different as the shorter round traveled through the longer cylinders and barrel. One thing that was impressive was how light the recoil was, which is good. I'd like to chronograph some 45 acp rounds and see what is lost by shooting the shorter ACP loads through the longer cylinders.... just a thought.

    Either would be a fun gun for me, but one that I would not rely on for serious social purposes.
     
  8. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Paladin
    Of course the recoil is light, you are practically throwing a BB down a sewer pipe
    the part to be impress on is that it works...
     
  9. farm23

    farm23 Member

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    I do not have a Judge or a S&W governor but have shot both + a Bond 45/410. All have a purpose but when I am in the woods my 44 mag is what I carry. Here in the mountains we have a fair number of rattlers but I can jump faster than draw and fire. My friend swears by his S&W and another friend likes his Judge but both are big. I like all of the above but will probably not purchase any.
     
  10. s4s4u

    s4s4u Member

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    This is kind of a vague assessment, no? I would like to see how it patterns at distance. Do you have any targets shot with 410's at 10 yards, 15 yards, etc?
     
  11. rtaylor71

    rtaylor71 Member

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    Yes, it's pretty vague. I really wrote the review to refute the bad accuracy reports regarding the Judge I've read and heard. Having a 3" barrel, how can it help but have a large spread past 5 yards or so? With that in mind, I pretty much disregarded shotshell performance.

    As far as I'm concerned, the Judge is a .45 Colt which happens to fire .410 shells - instead of the other way around.
     
  12. hipoint

    hipoint Member

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    I have had a judge and a circuit judge as well as a taurus .357 with 6 inch barrel (can't remember the exact model) The judge itself was the best of the 3, but I think they were all pretty bad. It seems that taurus/rossi has quality control issues, hence guys who like them and guys who claim they're junk. I'm still willing to give the company a try, but ONLY with a gun that I can fire a box of shells through before purchasing. No more new taurus/rossi for me.

    I'm sure they have to make good guns, otherwise no one would like them, I just seem to pick the bad ones. That said I like my rugers :rolleyes: although they too seem to have their bad production days as well.... I think any gun company is going to put out some lemons...

    I have owned a number of Hi-points as well, do not at the moment and most likely won't again, but only because I don't like their design features, not because of reliability or accuracy.

    I've found that buying good condition used stuff tends to have better results than new. That way you can give it a go at the range, and you know it's already been broken in so anything that's gonna break right away has already done so.
     
  13. farm23

    farm23 Member

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    Update, the friend who had the Judge has sold it and bought a Governor. He thinks the quality is better and like the extra round.
     
  14. JFrame

    JFrame Member

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    FWIW -- I love firing my Governor. I think your friend will be happy with his. :)


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  15. JFrame

    JFrame Member

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    Just to get you started with accumulating some data -- these are numbers that Wiley Clapp posted in the March, 2012, issue of American Rifleman:

    Velocity tested at 12':

    Federal No. GMA45A 230-gr. Match FMJ -- 739 fps, 279 ft/lbs.
    Black Hills 230-gr. JHP -- 832 fps, 354 ft/lbs.

    Average groups at 25 yards:

    Federal No. GMA45A 230-gr. Match FMJ -- 3.20"
    Black Hills 230-gr. JHP -- 3.06"


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  16. tomrkba

    tomrkba Member

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    I shot two of them. Both jammed with 410 ammunition. The cylinder had to be hit very hard in order to open the action. Both performed very, very well with 45 Colt. One was exceptionally accurate with 45 Colt and put all five rounds into a 3/4" to 1" group at 25 feet. The Judge with 410 buckshot is useless. It was barely "minute of torso" (20" tall x 12" wide pattern) at 7 yards and none of the pellets hit a vital area. This is very dangerous for bystanders in an actual shooting situation.

    I think there are better guns out there for 45 Colt. Personally, I'd choose a S&W Model 25 over a Judge.
     
  17. suemarkp

    suemarkp Member

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    Whose buckshot were you using? The only one the seems to work is the Personal Defense loading from Federal (4 pellets of copper plated 00 Buck). All the standard buckshot loads seem to squish when being fired and pancake to around .45 diameter (the last ball being flattened the most). This makes them scatter and reduces penetration.

    I tried the Remington PD load too, and it wasn't as good as the Federal load but not near as bad as the classic 410 buckshot loadings.
     
  18. Havok7416
    • Contributing Member

    Havok7416 Member

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    Federal .410 handgun ammo was engineered specifically for the Judge. I have yet to see a Judge pattern poorly using that ammunition.
     
  19. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

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    Add me to the list of "I don't get it."

    Compared to a revolver chambered in 357 magnum, the Judge is heavy and large, and is chambered in a cartridge that doesn't really do anything a 357 can't do, including shotshells for snakes.

    I see nothing in this thread that can convince me to run out and buy an oversized pistol.
     
  20. s4s4u

    s4s4u Member

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    Not so fast. A .410 blast to the chest will leave a mark. It could be made into a "practical" shotgun if they wanted to.
     
  21. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Go look up
    Shotgun rifled barrel
    and come back when you realize the problem (hint, a cops favorite food...)
     
  22. tomrkba

    tomrkba Member

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    These guns sell because of good marketing and general ignorance about self-defense. I won't have a *defense* gun that requires very specific ammunition. They are inefficient platforms for 45 Colt.

    Box of Truth:
    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

    The tests do not duplicate the conditions of a body engaged in a fight. However, you can use it as a comparison tool. Go look to see how 357 Magnum and 45 ACP do against The Box of Truth.

    Frankly, after shooting The Judge, I thought it was merely a gimmick gun. They make money. Get one if you want one for fun, but be smarter than the marketing team at Taurus when you choose a firearm for defensive use.
     
  23. tomrkba

    tomrkba Member

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    These guns sell because of good marketing and general ignorance about self-defense. I won't have a *defense* gun that requires very specific ammunition. They are inefficient platforms for 45 Colt. I am responsible for each projectile that leaves my gun. If the shot will not stay on target at self-defense distances, then that round is not suitable for the purpose. I will not have the time to change loads when a fight starts, so 45 Colt is the way to go with The Judge.

    Box of Truth:
    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

    The tests do not duplicate the conditions of a body engaged in a fight. However, you can use it as a comparison tool. Go look to see how 357 Magnum and 45 ACP do against The Box of Truth.

    I did forget to mention both guns needed serious trigger work. I found the stock triggers were not smooth at all and required too much concentration to use easily.

    Frankly, after shooting The Judge, I thought it was merely a gimmick gun. They make money. Get one if you want one for fun, but be smarter than the marketing team at Taurus when you choose a firearm for defensive use.
     
  24. JFrame

    JFrame Member

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    These are Wiley Clapp's shooting results (again, American Rifleman, March 2012) for the .410 bore from the Governor at 5 yards with a cumulative 5-shot string:

    Federal 2 1/2" 000 (4) buckshot: 4" ring (19 balls), 8" (1 ball), 12" (0 balls)

    Remington 2 1/2" 000 (4) buckshot: 4" ring (6 balls), 8" (9 balls), 12" (5 balls)

    Winchester 2 1/2" Defense Discs (3) BB shot (12): 4" ring (3/15), 8" (12/0), 12" (18/0)

    I've only fired one cylinder-full of the .410 Federal Premium Self Defense load (at 5 yards), but they approximated Clapp's results -- I would guesstimate a 3 1/2" grouping of balls to POA.


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  25. Ludlow Porch

    Ludlow Porch Member

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    Well I really like my Judge, Public Defender. I bought it mostly to carry along with my tackle box. But I cc it some loaded with 45 LC. Say what you want it is fun to shoot! That is all the reason you need to purchase a Judge, enjoyment of firing a weapon. Gun snobs can and will disagree, go ahead if we all agreed the world would be boring.

    If you have ever walked through a cow pasture along the South Chickamauga Creek, in July or August with broom sage up to your chest you would understand how practical of a weapon it is.
     
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