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"jungle-loading" a magazine

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by AcceptableUserName, Oct 15, 2009.

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  1. AcceptableUserName

    AcceptableUserName member

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    in a self defense scenario. lets say 230 gr .45 hardball and jhp (wouldnt bother with 9mm)...provided both rounds function well on their own, could shooting a jungle loaded mag cause the gun to hang up in anyway? by jungle loadeing i mean a staggered mag...jhp, fmj, jhp, fmj, or jhp, fmj fmj, jhp so on and so forth.
     
  2. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    I think that if it did, the gun would be to blame.

    I've loaded my .45 up with alternating wadcutters and fmj and it ran through the mag just fine.
     
  3. CWL

    CWL Member

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    The proper term is "cocktail loading".

    What purpose are you trying to accomplish? I'd doubt that you'd have any functional issues with the gun, but why do you think it would be more effective to alternate bullets for SD?
     
  4. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    I have heard this called "survival loading". It shouldn't interfere with the functioning of the pistol if it will normally feed and function with those rounds but seems pretty pointless to me. The different rounds may have different points of impact so it would leave out any precision shooting. I'd just use a qaulity 230 JHP like Federal makes.
     
  5. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    I agree with others in that I just use one type of bullet and go with it.

    Now a pump action 12 gauge is a bit different. I may want to start with #2 pellets, then move to buckshot after a couple of rounds.

    If I don't need the #2, all I have to do is rack the slide twice and the 00 Buck will be loaded.
     
  6. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Member

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    We think alike.
     
  7. kd7nqb

    kd7nqb Member

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    And just to add one more, I have always called it Dutch loading.

    Now back to the OP's question, I have been known to make sure that if I am going to carry a spare magazine it is a FMJ since my standard load is a HP. As for mixing in the same mag? I save that for a pump shotgun.
     
  8. hammerklavier

    hammerklavier Member

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    Heh, heh. And the sound of you racking the slide twice would scare away twice as many bad guys! :)

    I could see doing the cocktail loading provided you are using a powerful FMJ load and not a target load. I assume you want superior penetration in case the bad guy has armor (which is very rare). In fact, if it looks like he's wearing armor I suggest that you rely on shot placement.
     
  9. Mad Magyar

    Mad Magyar Member

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    I prefer just topping off couple rds with SD ammo, the remainder FMJ...I'd like to think the 3rd & 4th rds are the "coup de grace" as in Mozambique....;)
    To the OP, if your pistol is well-tuned, I see no problem with the stagger..
     
  10. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Member

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    I've also heard it called "Dutch loading" although mostly in conjunction with shotguns.

    All the older gun writers used to do test experiments with new auto pistols by mixing loads in a magazine.
    Just what this was intended to prove or test was never made clear other than some of them thought that different ammo might cause stoppages.
    I never read a review in which there was a problem, but most made an issue out how the gun didn't malfunction.
     
  11. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

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    I don't see the point, unless you think you can remember exactly what round is in the chamber after some stressful shooting. If you find yourself discharging your pistol in a SD event, you need it to function simply and seamlessly, don't waste your time counting rounds - shoot to stop and keep yourself safe. Maybe keeping the bottom few rounds as a hot FMJ loading might be in order in winter, but even that seems sort of silly, since a clogged-up HP round essentially becomes a wadcutter.
    Now, keeping different type/brand/lot ammo in a backup magazine has some merit, I do so to isolate ammo-related failures in the loaded CC mag from the reload.
     
  12. AcceptableUserName

    AcceptableUserName member

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    I bring this up only for food for thought. I wouldn't bother in your normal HD or self-defense application but were I LE, I'd give it serious thought while considering a prolonged firefight involving cover. You'd be able to have the pure manstopper (jhp) as well as a bit more penetration and still have some decent stoppage with the hardball (car doors for example). I just feel like it would double an LEO's chance to end the situation quickly by being multi-dimensional. I'm no expert, it just seems like I'd rather have the effects of both at one time in something prolonged.
     
  13. zhyla

    zhyla Member

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    Shouldn't be an issue, but seems like a bad idea. Better off having a mag dedicated to the penetrating round and mark it to it's obvious.
     
  14. David E

    David E Member

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    This presumes that the FMJ would penetrate more than modern bonded JHP's, at least as far as car doors go.

    It's silly to alternate loads like that in the first magazine. You could make a point of having your second magazine loaded with FMJ's, on the premise that if you still have something to shoot at after the first mag, they're probably behind cover by then.
     
  15. David E

    David E Member

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    Why would you want to start with #2's ? Just wanna kill 'em a little bit ? :D

    You may just get ONE shot. Me, I'd want it to be 00 Buck.
     
  16. AcceptableUserName

    AcceptableUserName member

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    Ha offtopic but potato potatoe with the #2 and 00. #2 is pretty big...lol
     
  17. David E

    David E Member

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    But lacks penetration of 00 Buck, yet indoors, still presents a bit of a hazard thru walls.

    #2 is .15 caliber, while 00 Buck is over twice as large at .33 caliber.

    I'll still take 00 Buck for defense.
     
  18. evan price

    evan price Member

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    Most LE never need to fire their gun. Most situations where you are an LE you will cary the ammo your department tells you to carry and not be allowed to deviate. You're not an LE so who cares?

    Properly designed self defense ammo will work like it is designed to.

    If you are concerned about a lack of penetration carry ball.

    Why overthink simple stuff? This shooting through barricades stuff is great in movies but let's face it, it doesn't happen every day.

    When I play Counterstrike I load my magazines JHP, FMJ, DEPLETED URANIUM, WHITE PHOSPHORUS so I know that by the third shot I get them no matter what they are behind and the fourth shot sets them on fire.
     
  19. REAPER4206969

    REAPER4206969 Member

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    Modern bonded JHP bullets penetrate intermediate barriers just fine.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. johnnylaw53

    johnnylaw53 Member

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    Not quite the same thing but when I was carrying a kel tec p32 I was concern with rim lock so I would but a hp in the pipe and the magzine loaded with hard ball, That important first round I felt would give me the greatess amount of power i could hope for with a .32 and the hard balls would not rim lock.

    be safe
     
  21. ByAnyMeans

    ByAnyMeans Member

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    I load my .380 with a FNFMJ and my 9mm with a hollowpoint respectively but would never want to load up different ammo in the same magazine.


    By the way around my way it was always called a "Ghetto load" because only they loaded whatever they could get. Everybody else would just go buy a box of ammo and load it up.
     
  22. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    That's splitting some mighty fine hairs. Even premium handgun rounds... are still handgun rounds.

    RE "Candy striping," I've never heard anyone outline a realistic advantage. People like to play What If and invent highly unrealistic scenarios to suit it, even though most don't. Take the example of shooting through a car door - not going to be a problem for any supersonic 9mm FMJ or JHP from a modern, reliable manufacturer. This is partially due to bullet design, and partially due to car door design. They never were solid cover on soft vehicles, but in the last 12 years or so, they've gotten even more flimsy. At best, you've got some light concealment, and that's only if you're under 5'.
     
  23. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Why would anyone want to handicap themselves with a different POI, recoil impulse, and blast every other shot?

    JHP is proven to be superior to FMJ in almost any SD situation you can imagine.
    FMJ much less so.

    rc
     
  24. herkyguy

    herkyguy Member

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    heck, why not toss a few blanks in there as well to make things really interesting.
     
  25. ByAnyMeans

    ByAnyMeans Member

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    "That's splitting some mighty fine hairs. Even premium handgun rounds... are still handgun rounds."

    I would have to disagree. I want my ammunition to perform to the FBI standard of 12 inches of penetration in ballistic gel. There is no .380 hollowpoint that performs that currently on the market so it's FMJ. There are many 9mm rounds in hollowpoint that do consistently expand while still making 12 inches so those are hollowpoints.

    The debate over whether we should model our choice of defensive ammunition on the FBI's criteria is different. I have chosen to so it seems like some pretty big hairs to me.
     
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