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Just how stupid are rifle manufacturers?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Jubjub, Dec 6, 2006.

  1. Jubjub

    Jubjub Member

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    I am honestly baffled. We live in the age of computer controlled machining. The difference between manufacturing a left handed rifle and a right handed rifle is a few clicks on a computer screen.

    I went to the fall Tulsa gun show. 3700 tables. I got through the majority of them. In two days, I saw less than thirty left handed bolt actions, most of them four figure custom rifles, and most of them in idiotic overheated barrel burner chamberings.

    Hello... McFly!

    Ten percent of the population is left handed. Many more like me have eye dominance and correction issues.

    If I want to buy a left handed centerfire sporter short action in some sort of a normal chambering, I can buy a Savage, or I can buy a Savage.

    Not to say that there's anything wrong with that, but still...

    I'm just saying that at some point, a guy like me who shoots left handed might want to buy a new rifle in something besides a long action .30-06 in some godawful 1950s styled stock.
     
  2. blackhawk2000

    blackhawk2000 member

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    It's not profitable. If it was, they would.
     
  3. cracked butt

    cracked butt Senior Member

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    I'm guessing that there is a lot less 'turnover' with left handed shooters. A right handed shooter can buy and sell anything they want on a whim, but a left handed shooter would have to to through a more lengthy process to find the right model and to even locate an example of what they want. I figure that a left hander is much less likely to sell an item made for them because they have more time invested in it. Just a theory though......
     
  4. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Senior Member

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    They killed the dream

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Manedwolf

    Manedwolf member

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    They can make product for ninety percent of the population, or for ten percent of the situation.

    HM! I wonder which any sane business owner would choose?
     
  6. ____hoot____

    ____hoot____ New Member

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    Pretty damned stupid in my book too, but for other reasons. I have killed 2 dozen or so deer in 40 years of hunting here in the woods and swamps of Michigan and only ONE has been beyond 100 yards. I can't think of one also where a quick second shot would have been of any damned use given both the amount of cover I hunt in and my "poor" skills at hitting running targets. I want a rifle that is light and quick handleing in a round that is sufficient to kill a deer at this distance. Tired of all the eight pound monsters that I see being produced; never saw any rifle other the commie militarys that I wouldn't have to take a saw to the stock and whack off an inch or two to get them to fit and handle in my thick cold weather hunting clothes and I weigh over two hundred pounds! When I say light I mean five pounds or under for my still hunting rifle in a round such as the 7.62x39 or 357 Remington Maximum.
     
  7. MyRoad

    MyRoad Member

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    I'm left handed -- I shoot rifles right handed, swing a golf club (the few times I've tried) right handed, use right handed scissors... I think that enough lefties adapt to a right handed world, that the remaining portion of the 10% just don't justify retooling. I do shoot handguns left handed, and have found a few frustrations with holster manufacturers only making right-handed versions of some holsters, but that's just the way it is.
     
  8. telomerase

    telomerase Senior Member

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    Cosmoline, that is hilarious.

    Jubjub, I'm sure any of the manufacturers will be glad to sell you a large run of left-handed rifles at wholesale prices, if you think there's a big commercial opportunity here. Let us know how it works out :)

    Hoot, have you considered a single shot?
     
  9. moewadle

    moewadle Member

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    Like already pointed out...it is the bottom line

    of the company balance sheet. There is not enough demand to make it profitable. And, as also pointed out, enough left-handers adapt by shooting right-handed or...not shooting a bolt action. I am right-handed and have a left-dominant eye and a lazy right eye. So, I do everything right-handed except shooting. So, I own no bolt rifles. I own lever-action and autoloaders. I will say I own no centerfire rifles. My point, what is wrong with simply using a lever action, a single-shot, or autoloader???
     
  10. Vairochana

    Vairochana Member

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    Get a muzzleloader, a lot of them are available in a lefthand model:neener:
     
  11. kfranz

    kfranz Senior Member

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    You seem to be quite an expert on rifle manufacturing. I'd be curious to see any evidence you might have for such a claim.
     
  12. El Tejon

    El Tejon Senior Member

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    To answer your question, very stupid.
     
  13. DogBonz

    DogBonz Senior Member

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    How stupid...

    Well sir, that depends. A sample of the results of a quick Goolge search puts the percentage of the population that are left handed between 10 and 13. Now I ask you is it more profitable for you to make a rifle for 87 to 90 percent of the population, or 10 to 13 percent? Sure, they will throw you guys a small bone and offer the most popular rifles in only the most popular calibers, and this will satisfy the majority of lefties.
    I do agree that they are dumb for not offering more as specialty runs for those who are willing to wait.
     
  14. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    I have to agree with El Tejon, but not because of the lefty issue. No doubt, that is a financial deal and for profit companies have to make financial decisions that work for them. That is part of the reason they don't do more specialty items. Sure, there may be a niche market for such things, but not enough to make the profits (if any) to make it worthwhile.

    If you are not in combat with a bolt gun, or rather, if you are doing precision shooting, rested, etc., opposite hand guns really are better. As a righty shooting a bolt gun from a rested position, I would much rather NOT remove my firing grip to work the bolt. I would rather my weak hand do the work and it is able to be accomplished with an opposite side gun, or in my case, a lefty gun.

    If I was a lefty and wanting to shoot bolt guns from rested positions, assuming that is what you want, I would be in heaven ... having all those supposedly right-handed guns to choose from.
     
  15. gunNoob

    gunNoob Member

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    start using your right hand?
     
  16. Geno
    • Contributing Member

    Geno Senior Member

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    Blame your teachers

    I entered kindergarden as a lefty. My teacher made certain that I didn't leave there a lefty. The rationale that she gave my parents was that we live in a right-handed world, and unless they wanted me to suffer for life, that they had better back her. I was somewhat resistant to the change. :)

    Unless you are hung-up with bolt-action rifles, I would suggest a nice Browning, specifically the BLR in .308 or in .30-06, or some other equally powerful lever action such as a Marlin in .444 or .450 Marlin. Having used these calibers on boar using an Encore single-shot pistol, I can say that these calibers drop game with authority.

    Doc2005
     
  17. CornCod

    CornCod Member

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    I recall reading in the Shotgun News that there is a company out there making left-handed AR-15's.
     
  18. Dravur

    Dravur Senior Member

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    Actually...

    most gun parts are not produced on computer controlled mills. Many, many parts are made on dies on machines that are designed to do one thing, over and over. These MIGHT be able to be set up easily for left hand and they might not. It is not as simple as waving a magic wand and poof, the machine is set up for left hand receivers.

    For most companies, it makes no sense to completely retool and set up for a run of 2 guns for a left handed rifle in some oddball barn burner caliber and then have to find the 2 guys who really want that.

    It really is a pure business decision. Oh, and I happen to be left handed as well, but I have shot right handed all my life.

    It is Stag arms that makes the left handed ARs
     
  19. ryoushi

    ryoushi Member

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    As mentioned there are many of us with eye dominance issues as well. And it was never a question of gee should we make right handed OR left handed bolt actions, it was why not make both? As mentioned, the actual design changes would be not that big a deal if they are already done by computer.

    The actual tooling however I think is a different story.

    Companies have and do make left hand actions. It's just that not all do. Lefties can pretty much find what they need unless it's a short action Mauser style action.

    CZ, are you listening? Cmon now.
     
  20. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Senior Member

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    http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/left-Hand/

    Hell, you can even get a cheap 870 Express in leftie. You just have to order it. Shops don't keep them on display shelves, usually.

    Several Remington rifles are also available leftie, including target, varmint and sporting models.

    Weatherby's Mark V is also available in Leftie. Not the less-pricey Vanguard, however.
    http://www.weatherby.com/products/products.asp?prd=Rifles&prd_type=1&prd_sub_type=1

    Browning's A Bolt, also quite available in Southpaw.
    http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/category.asp?value=001B

    Savage rifles, lots of Left-Hand models.
    http://www.savagearms.com/centerfire_home.htm

    Stag Arms, a complete line of Leftie AR's.
    http://www.stagarms.com/leftyrifles.html

    You may not have as many choices, or find the guns in the Bargain Bin, but with some effort, you can get a left-handed rifle (and a pump or semiauto shotgun, too).
     
  21. JohnBT

    JohnBT Senior Member

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    Cooper will make a left-handed rifle for a mere $150 more and they offer a wide variety of calibers.

    John
     
  22. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Senior Member

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    I try to learn to shoot anything/everything on either side (naturally a southpaw). Can't quite get the hang of it with shotguns though.
     
  23. ARperson

    ARperson Member

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    Dravur hit the nail on the head, but it may go even deeper than that, especially in a large company.

    In the new ISO900X world of business process excellence, the requirements to maintain the certification and status drive lots of other costs into the design and manufacture of the item.

    For instance, a few mouse clicks will give a nice computer model of the rifle.
    But then you need new drawings and part numbers for all those parts.
    Then you need new assembly drawings. While these are kind of easy, they still cost money.
    Then you have to prove to management, laywers and auditors that merely mirroring the model does not change the way the rifle works or alter it's safe use in any way.

    Then as Dravur alluded to, you need 2X the tooling you had before.

    So by the time all is said and done, the cost of the bueacracy of the company is more than any additional sales they may see from it, unless they jack up the price three to four X over the righties to cover the overhead.

    Now for some of the smaller shops is might make sense because their overhead and process is much more directed and less about CYA.
     
  24. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Senior Member

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    Don't forget the number of us Southpaws who are right eye dominant, and who would never purchase a left handed rifle or shotgun.
     
  25. lawson4

    lawson4 Member

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    Actually, the cost comes in when parts are cast, MIMed or extruded. The cost of molds can run $50-60K EACH. If a receiver is cast as a lift hand and you must recoup the cost of tooling, amotized over the amount of guns sold, the profit margin will be much slimmer, or nonexistant for a left hand model because of fewer gun sold.
    Don't forget that the bolt, ejector, extractor, stock, etc may also have to be made from a different mold or need new gages for inspection.

    lawson4
     

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