Justice officials in "Panic Mode" over failed Gun Program

[publius]

So far, the only person who has been fired is a whistleblower, Vince Cefalu, and the "lateral transfer" of 3 of the main perpetrators of this scheme indicates he will be the last person to lose his job over this mess.

 

[kis2]

here's an interview I hadn't seen yet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN-1eLvQH1I&feature=youtu.be

"I'm not going to promote a conspiracy, but you have to wonder..."

 

[SDC]

Maybe things are starting to get a little too hot in the kitchen; Melson is supposed to announce his resignation as Director this afternoon: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-pn-atf-director-resign-20110830,0,4064414.story

 

[zxcvbob]

Notice that he's only resigning his directorship. He is being transferred to another DOJ assignment.

 

[Mike1234567]

Notice that he's only resigning his directorship. He is being transferred to another DOJ assignment.

With retained pay and benefits is my supposition.

 

[Ky Larry]

These people (Melson and the U.S. Attn. who was reassigned) have Obama and Holder by the short hairs. If they beleived they might wind up in jail, they would sing like canaries.The current administration will do anything to keep them quiet. I'd love to see a Congessional Investigating committe get the Obamanator and his race hustler A.G. on the stand and under oath. The first question they need to ask is "What did the president know, and when did he know it?" It would most definately be Must See TV.

 

[Hawthorne2k]

Maybe things are starting to get a little too hot in the kitchen; Melson is supposed to announce his resignation as Director this afternoon: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,4064414.story

Not just Melson, but US Attorney for Arizona Dennis Burke is leaving as well.

Looks like Holder's trying to send a signal to anyone else who might want to testify against him.

 

[22-rimfire]

There are plenty of people to testify if the nip comes to tug. I suspect Holder is behind it all at the recommendation of ATF. Holder approved it and informed the president at what probably at the time was not a significant operation to them. Things back fired.

 

[zxcvbob]

These people (Melson and the U.S. Attn. who was reassigned) have Obama and Holder by the short hairs. If they beleived they might wind up in jail, they would sing like canaries.The current administration will do anything to keep them quiet. I'd love to see a Congessional Investigating committe get the Obamanator and his race hustler A.G. on the stand and under oath. The first question they need to ask is "What did the president know, and when did he know it?" It would most definately be Must See TV.

I would love to see Issa issue a subpoena to force the president to testify -- but that's an awfully high trump card and needs to be played wisely. Obama would get all indignant and stamp his foot and say "executive privilege", but the Supreme Court would rule against him if they follow stare decisis as much as they claim to (US vs. Nixon, 1974)

 

[Mike1234567]

I would love to see Issa issue a subpoena to force the president to testify -- but that's an awfully high trump card and needs to be played wisely. Obama would get all indignant and stamp his foot and say "executive privilege", but the Supreme Court would rule against him if they follow stare decisis as much as they claim to (US vs. Nixon, 1974)

Yeah... r-i-g-h-t... Where's David Frost when we need the like?? Oh... oh... wait.... I know... Davey is now owned by big brother!! Please forgive me but I forgot about about BigCorp.

ETA: Hmm... one too many beers, I think. I'm sure I was trying to make a point with this post but I can't remember what it was.

 

[ATBackPackin]

Agents Raid New Mexico Gun Store in Gun Smuggling Case

Federal agents raided a New Mexico gun store Tuesday morning and arrested the owner, his wife and their two sons on a 30-count indictment accusing them of smuggling guns across the border with Mexico. The firearms sold by the defendants included 27 AK-47-type rifles, three AR-15 rifles, two .50 caliber rifles, and two 9 mm pistols -- weapons favored by Mexican cartels, according to a federal indictment.

Here is the whole article.



If this turns out to be connected to "fast and furious" I am going to seriously flip my lid. IF they are actually guilty then I say they get what they deserve, however..............why isn't the DOJ and ATF employees getting the same treatment??? They smuggled a hell of a lot more guns than that. All of this shuffling of the deck crap hoping that the American people will be fooled is really [@(%ing p!$$ing me off. I swear it is like a bad magicians trick and they expect us to just swallow it hook, line, and sinker. My brother who is a moderate liberal has not even hear about all of this, I had to tell him about it today.

If the Oversight and Reform Committee doesn't get to the bottom of this I really think we should have some sort of protest in D.C.

 

[ATBackPackin]

Issa: Still many "fast and furious" questions.

Here is another interview with congressman Issa.

 

[kis2]

a statement from that article:

"Those who sell firearms knowing that they will be illegally smuggled into Mexico to arm Mexican Cartels share responsibility for the violence that has been devastating Mexico," U.S. Attorney Ken Gonzales said in statement

I agree Mr. U.S. Attorney, so let's see some prosecutions in the DoJ for this.

 

[CoRoMo]

Agents Raid New Mexico Gun Store in Gun Smuggling Case

...why isn't the DOJ and ATF employees getting the same treatment???

There is a big difference between the ruler and the ruled. We have to follow the law or else. They... not so much.

 

[Mike1234567]

This is my kingdom and you shall be beheaded for adultery. Now go fetch my wenches before the queen returns!!

 

[Hardware]

If the Oversight and Reform Committee doesn't get to the bottom of this I really think we should have some sort of protest in D.C.

How about a nice, peaceful gathering of riflemen, say about 1000 in Hillside Park in Arlington, VA. It would only be a 3 mile walk to the President's Park in front of the White House. That might be sufficient to demonstrate our displeasure.

 

[Neverwinter]

All of this shuffling of the deck crap hoping that the American people will be fooled is really [@(%ing p!$$ing me off. I swear it is like a bad magicians trick and they expect us to just swallow it hook, line, and sinker. My brother who is a moderate liberal has not even hear about all of this, I had to tell him about it today.

That is surprising since many newspapers have been covering the topic. See the earlier post with the link to the LA Times. It isn't getting the screen time, but it has been there. Obviously, Fox is the leader in coverage due to their platform strategy. See the earlier posts today and yesterday to understand what I'm referring to.

 

[Sky]

How about a nice, peaceful gathering of riflemen, say about 1000 in Hillside Park in Arlington, VA. It would only be a 3 mile walk to the President's Park in front of the White House. That might be sufficient to demonstrate our displeasure.

I am afraid that would be the excuse they are looking for to further their sick little plans.

 

[publius]

How different news outlets reported the story of Melson, Burke, and the rest resigning or getting sinecure jobs:

CBS News Sharyll Atkisson

The gunwalking scandal centered on an ATF program that allowed thousands of high-caliber weapons to knowingly be sold to so-called "straw buyers" who are suspected as middlemen for criminals. Those weapons, according to the Justice Dept., have been tied to at least 12 violent crimes in the United States, and an unknown number of violent crimes in Mexico. Dubbed operation "Fast and Furious," the plan was designed to gather intelligence on gun sales, but ATF agents have told CBS News and members of Congress that they were routinely ordered to back off and allow weapons to "walk" when sold.

Accurate as usual. Good job.

NY Times

Run by the bureau's Phoenix division, the operation, called Operation Fast and Furious, ran from late 2009 to early 2011. Its strategy was to watch suspected "straw" gun buyers, rather than moving as quickly as possible to arrest them and seize the weapons, in the hope of identifying higher-level conspirators — as drug investigations are often conducted.

The operation was internally controversial because the firearms bureau traditionally puts a priority on getting guns off the street. It also lacked adequate controls — one straw purchaser bought more than 600 weapons, and agents lost track of hundreds.

Not mentioned: while drug operations are conducted that way, numerous agents testified that ATF agents are trained to NEVER let guns walk.

Lost track of the guns, or were ordered to let them go? There are differing interpretations of this sworn testimony from Agent Dodson:



I happen to think that "my supervisors directed me and my colleagues not to make any stop or arrest, but rather to keep the straw purchaser under surveillance while allowing the guns to walk" means that he was ordered to let the guns walk. I also think that when he says this was the rule, not the exception, he means that it was the policy directive from above that caused the agents to "lose track" of the guns. I see a difference between agents being ordered to lose track of guns and agents just losing track of guns. The former speaks to the policy, the latter to the competence of the agents. I think the problem here was one of policy, not agent competence.

LA Times Richard Serrano

Under Melson's leadership, ATF launched Operation Fast and Furious, through which agents were to watch -- and in some cases record on video -- illegal gun sales and then use surveillance teams and electronic eavesdropping to follow the guns and learn how the weapons were moved. The goal was to arrest cartel leaders overseeing gun smuggling on the U.S. side of the border with Mexico.

But the chase for guns and cartel leaders soon hit a dead end. The ATF was attempting to follow each of the weapons as they were moved from the straw men who bought them illegally at gun shops to what officials expected would be cartel higher-ups in the U.S., who would move them to Mexico.

The agency, which didn't have the resources to follow so many weapons, soon lost track of many of them.

I do not think that Agent Dodson's testimony, nor any other I have seen or heard, supports the idea that the problem here was budgetary or some other lack of resources. They did not say that they ran out of funds to follow the guns. They said that they were routinely ordered to stop following them. If the problem truly was as the LA Times has outlined it here, the incompetence is far worse than I could have previously imagined. They kept on not realizing until after the guns were sold that they did not have the resources for this operation for months and months, yet let it continue? I do not believe it.

CBS is the only outlet of the three that seems to really know what this was about. It was not about incompetent agents losing track of guns, nor about a lack of money to properly run the operation. It was about deeply flawed policy decisions that, according to Agent Canino, essentially threw the entire ATF training manual in the trash and made up new (illegal) rules for this operation.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Apparently LAT and NYT are more heavily invested in supporting gun control editorially than CBS.

The ATF field agents were ordered to let the guns walk. LAT and NYT try to spin the argument that ATF lacked the laws or the funds to stop them.

Grassley's letter to Holder 13 Apr 2011 includes emails from a "Cooperating FFL" to ATF David Voth expressing concern that he was ordered by ATF to allow sales he was concerned about, and the ATF giving him assurance the guns weren't being allowed to stay in criminal hands. NYT and LAT have editorialized that the problem was the dealers.

NYT will not stop until there is a Sullivan Act imposed NYC style on the whole USA, and if lying about Gunwalker will do it, well you have to break eggs to make omelets, as they say.

 

[kis2]

Fox reports Grassley says 21 guns have now been found at violent crime scenes in Mexico.

 

[bhesler]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/02/demand-for-more-answers-in-fast-and-furious-scandal/

It says 21 "more" guns found in Mexico then the next sentence compares it to the 11 that were reported last month, which I believe were from US crime scenes. Are they really talking about the same thing?

 

[publius]

Apparently LAT and NYT are more heavily invested in supporting gun control editorially than CBS.

Seems to me that CBS has dumped that investment. I think the other two bought their shares.

 

[ATBackPackin]

That is surprising since many newspapers have been covering the topic. See the earlier post with the link to the LA Times. It isn't getting the screen time, but it has been there. Obviously, Fox is the leader in coverage due to their platform strategy. See the earlier posts today and yesterday to understand what I'm referring to.

I am not absolutely positive, but pretty sure he gets most of his news on-line and I seriously doubt it is from Fox. If I recall correctly I think he uses MSN mostly.

 

[ATBackPackin]

ATF Gunwalker: Who at the White House knew?

CBS News has obtained a series of emails that show the White House had more information on ATF's controversial Fast and Furious operation than previously disclosed. But administration officials insists nobody at the White House knew specifically that ATF was allowing guns to "walk" into the hands of suspected gun traffickers for Mexican drug cartels.

Here is the rest of the story.

In another email to O'Reilly at the White House on Aug. 18, 2010, Newell expresses frustration with the US Attorney's request to have agents in trafficking cases "physically inspect the firearms (that turn up) in Mexico... to show the jury that (it) was part of a trafficking scheme."

Hmmmm, interesting..............................