Justified Self Defense?

[primer]

I see it like this. If the guy comes up saying something like that, i would tell him to stay back "with my hand on my gun of course" . If he proceeded to get closer and show a needle, I would show him my gun. If he got close he would be dead, period! I would rather sit in jail the rest of my life or get fried before I let him get close to me, much less my family. I say fill him up! Remember, in court there is always a motive. They have to find one. Did you fear for your life? Yes! Is there any other reason that you would shoot this guy that you have never met before? NO.

 

[mr hanky]

Wow, lots of great minds here on THR. I would have to agree with the sentiment that I would do whatever it took to keep me away from him whether or not I had seen the needle yet.

I would also consider Cosmoline's idea about non-lethal force if I hadn't actually seen the needle etc yet, but on the other hand I think primer has something saying that a DA/jury must find motive - defending your life sounds pretty reasonable seeing as I, for example, have a clean record.

Agreed that no matter if the person had AIDS or not, just the act of threatening/actually stabbing a sterile needle vs. a dirty one seems a potentially justifiable threat for potentially using deadly force.

Hopefully this got all of thinking at least so that we are a little more aware of our local law and situational awareness.

 

[glennfish]

OK, now consider this. You're using deadly force against an HIV positive guy who has given you witnesses and cause. What ammo do you choose? And don't spend too much time changing your load as he charges you.

1. FMJ that fully penetrates and may spray innocent victims down range with HIV tainted blood?

2. Some of the hyper expensive disintegrating rounds that while opening 3 inch wound channels ALSO back spray you with HIV tainted blood?

3. Black Talon which the emergency room doc will discover after he's sliced open himself and been infected?

4. OR....

 

[mr hanky]

Whoa, glennfish.

Now you've got me 100% more paranoid than I already was...I think, what was that sound?

 

[mekender]

OK, now consider this. You're using deadly force against an HIV positive guy who has given you witnesses and cause. What ammo do you choose? And don't spend too much time changing your load as he charges you.

1. FMJ that fully penetrates and may spray innocent victims down range with HIV tainted blood?

2. Some of the hyper expensive disintegrating rounds that while opening 3 inch wound channels ALSO back spray you with HIV tainted blood?

3. Black Talon which the emergency room doc will discover after he's sliced open himself and been infected?

4. OR....

whatever round is loaded at the time, most likely a jhp of some sort... do keep in mind that a spray of blood is not normally enough to transmit HIV... HIV when exposed to air dies very quickly... plus a round traveling through a human is usually hot enough to sterilize any biological matter that touches the round... DNA can survive, but blood cells are very unlikely to remain intact if they are in close proximity to the round... high velocity spatter is certainly a potential issue but you would probably need to be much more worried about where your rounds went after penetration than what biologicals were transmitted by its passing though an infected person...

 

[sacp81170a]

OK, now consider this. You're using deadly force against an HIV positive guy who has given you witnesses and cause. What ammo do you choose? And don't spend too much time changing your load as he charges you.

1. FMJ that fully penetrates and may spray innocent victims down range with HIV tainted blood?

2. Some of the hyper expensive disintegrating rounds that while opening 3 inch wound channels ALSO back spray you with HIV tainted blood?

3. Black Talon which the emergency room doc will discover after he's sliced open himself and been infected?

4. OR....

Never shot anyone, have you? Pistol rounds typically don't cause wounds that "spray", either downrange or back at you. Shooting someone in contact with the muzzle of the weapon would be the only way you'd get "sprayed" with fluid(momentum of the round is in the other direction). If someone down range is close enough to get "sprayed", they're probably more in risk of getting hit by your round than anything else.

I agree though, avoid contact with the bodily fluids if at all possible. This question comes up in my CCW classes. "If I shoot someone, should I render medical assistance to them afterward?" Generally, no. If you prefer not to risk unknown infections, it's best not to come in contact with the blood of strangers. There are other considerations, but the risk of disease is a major one.