I have a Camillus WWII issue of exactly the same pattern as the USMC fighting knife. But the Camillus is stamped U.S.N. where the others are stamped USMC. So no, not only the Marines had bad hog stickers. Their mama had them, too. 
Ka-Bar
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TimboKhan
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I have owned a Navy fighting knife for probably 20 years now. Truth be told, I actually like it a little better than the Kabar, because it is a tad smaller. I even had the sheath that went with it up until my buddies dog gnawed on it a few years ago, grrr......
GotC, your information was correct, but I think it is safe to say that "Kabar" has become a general name for any fighting knife of a certain type favored by Marines, particularly when it comes to Marines. Much like all facial tissue is generally referred to as "Kleenex" and all tilling machines are referred to as "Rototillers", so have all leather handled fighting knives of a certain type come to be called "Kabars". I can see where collectors might make the delineation, but the average guy just wants a Marine Corps knife and thats what he knows it as.
GotC, your information was correct, but I think it is safe to say that "Kabar" has become a general name for any fighting knife of a certain type favored by Marines, particularly when it comes to Marines. Much like all facial tissue is generally referred to as "Kleenex" and all tilling machines are referred to as "Rototillers", so have all leather handled fighting knives of a certain type come to be called "Kabars". I can see where collectors might make the delineation, but the average guy just wants a Marine Corps knife and thats what he knows it as.
GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL
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TimboKhan..
Yes, I agree with you.
I'm not really a knife collector and am not off into them. Just every once in awhile I might have a few dollars left over and look around for something to spend it on.
Thank you for responding to this post. I knew I was right but I was starting to feel put upon! (sort of like trying to explain to a blind man what the color red look's like)
I myself like the smaller K-Bar as far as knives go. It's exactly like the original Marine K-Bar point for point, only smaller. It's sure good for cleaning fish and small game and deer and what have you.
Again, thank you for responding. I have found it refreshing to read someone who know's reality from hype and bulls***, and who has the ability to stand back and put things into their proper perspective, liking what they like, but able to keep fact and fiction separate from each other....
There is no one so blind as he who just will not see....
Yes, I agree with you.
I'm not really a knife collector and am not off into them. Just every once in awhile I might have a few dollars left over and look around for something to spend it on.
Thank you for responding to this post. I knew I was right but I was starting to feel put upon! (sort of like trying to explain to a blind man what the color red look's like)
I myself like the smaller K-Bar as far as knives go. It's exactly like the original Marine K-Bar point for point, only smaller. It's sure good for cleaning fish and small game and deer and what have you.
Again, thank you for responding. I have found it refreshing to read someone who know's reality from hype and bulls***, and who has the ability to stand back and put things into their proper perspective, liking what they like, but able to keep fact and fiction separate from each other....
There is no one so blind as he who just will not see....
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coelacanth
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ok - now I'm in over my head. . . . . .
those of you who are experts in this area could probably tell me what I have. I assume from TimboKhan's post that he has a navy version of the knives pictured in Gentleman of the Charcoal's post. I think I have something like that as it is marked USN MkII and has a sheath made of what appears to be phenolic resin with a metal ferrule at the mouth of the sheath and metal reinforced canvas webbing as the belt hanger. All in that unmistakable USN gray. It appears to be a dead ringer sizewise for the USMC knife though. Is that the same knife you are describing, TimboKhan or something different?
those of you who are experts in this area could probably tell me what I have. I assume from TimboKhan's post that he has a navy version of the knives pictured in Gentleman of the Charcoal's post. I think I have something like that as it is marked USN MkII and has a sheath made of what appears to be phenolic resin with a metal ferrule at the mouth of the sheath and metal reinforced canvas webbing as the belt hanger. All in that unmistakable USN gray. It appears to be a dead ringer sizewise for the USMC knife though. Is that the same knife you are describing, TimboKhan or something different?
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
According to the M. H. Cole "U.S. Military Knives", book III, Camillus was the first to make the USN MK 2 knife during WWII.
They were later also made by PAL, Robeson, Conetta, Utica, and Ka-Bar and marked U.S.N.
Camillus, PAL, Robeson, and Ka-Bar also later made the exact same knife marked U.S.M.C.
For all practical purposes, any Navy MKII is the same knife as a Ka-Bar, and any Ka-Bar is a Navy MKII if it is mil-spec.
The gray plastic U.S.N. MKII scabbard was at first issued with knives to be used by UDT teams.
Later, they became more or less standard issue because of jungle rot quickly eating the leather sheaths in the South Pacific theater.
rcmodel
They were later also made by PAL, Robeson, Conetta, Utica, and Ka-Bar and marked U.S.N.
Camillus, PAL, Robeson, and Ka-Bar also later made the exact same knife marked U.S.M.C.
For all practical purposes, any Navy MKII is the same knife as a Ka-Bar, and any Ka-Bar is a Navy MKII if it is mil-spec.
The gray plastic U.S.N. MKII scabbard was at first issued with knives to be used by UDT teams.
Later, they became more or less standard issue because of jungle rot quickly eating the leather sheaths in the South Pacific theater.
rcmodel
TimboKhan
Member
Yup, thats exactly it. I could swear it was shorter (though not by much), but I am probably wrong on that one. I will have to dig it out and compare it to my Kabar and see.
coelacanth
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thanks for the help. . . . .
guess I own a little piece of history!
guess I own a little piece of history!
During WWII demand for the USMC Fighting/Utility Knife was so great that several companies, with Ka-Bar supposedly making 1,000,000 of them, produced the USMC 1219C2 for the U.S. government. If not for a friend of mine at work who collects antique military knives I never would have learned that companies other than Ka-Bar made these knives. Union Cutlery (later renaming the company to it's Ka-Bar brand to take advantage of the popularity of the knife), Pal, Robeson and Camillus all produced the knife. Western was invited, but for some reason isn't among the companies recognized as having made the USMC Fighting/Utility knife (USMC 1219C2). Although Case makes a commercial version, Case is supposed to have had other commitments to the government during WWII and never made the USMC 1219C2 or the USN Mk 2 (according to the reply I got from the Case Collector's Club off the Case website) under military contract either during or after WWII. I've developed a greater appreciation of just how many companies were under contract to make knives during that time. While other companies like Conetta and Utica also produced the Mk2, my understanding is that they were awarded contracts in later conflicts to build inventories back up like Camillus was.
There's probably no single military knife that has such a strong following and inspires such ardent passions as the USMC 1219C2 Fighting/Utility Knife that people commonly refer to as the "Ka-Bar", regardless of who the actual manufacturer of any particular 1219C2/Mk2 was.
https://www.kabar.com/famous.jsp
http://www.tomarskabars.com/KabarHistory.html
http://sgtgrit.com/scuttlebutt/corps-stories/ww2/wwIIknives.asp
See "part V" of http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/okca_1996.htm
http://www.robesonsrme.com/page2.html
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270737
Pictures of some of the non-Ka-Bar USMC knives are attached below along with a Ka-Bar USN Mk2 as well as a PDF of page 91 on the USMC Fighting/Utility Knife from the authoritative Cole book showing the Ka-Bar, Camillus, Pal and Robeson Suredge models from WW II. Note the change during production where the tang and then the guard is stamped with the service and manufacturer then the tang with manufacturer and "US".
There's probably no single military knife that has such a strong following and inspires such ardent passions as the USMC 1219C2 Fighting/Utility Knife that people commonly refer to as the "Ka-Bar", regardless of who the actual manufacturer of any particular 1219C2/Mk2 was.
https://www.kabar.com/famous.jsp
http://www.tomarskabars.com/KabarHistory.html
http://sgtgrit.com/scuttlebutt/corps-stories/ww2/wwIIknives.asp
See "part V" of http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/okca_1996.htm
http://www.robesonsrme.com/page2.html
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270737
Pictures of some of the non-Ka-Bar USMC knives are attached below along with a Ka-Bar USN Mk2 as well as a PDF of page 91 on the USMC Fighting/Utility Knife from the authoritative Cole book showing the Ka-Bar, Camillus, Pal and Robeson Suredge models from WW II. Note the change during production where the tang and then the guard is stamped with the service and manufacturer then the tang with manufacturer and "US".
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Thats because Western never made a mil-spec version of the MK II.
They had one, the model #G-46-8, but it had an 8" blade instead of a 7".
And it had the patented Western "twin-tang" with H-washer stacked leather handle.
Those two changes prevented it from being a mil-spec MK II, so it doesn't count.
rcmodel
They had one, the model #G-46-8, but it had an 8" blade instead of a 7".
And it had the patented Western "twin-tang" with H-washer stacked leather handle.
Those two changes prevented it from being a mil-spec MK II, so it doesn't count.
rcmodel
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