I carry with a full mag, chamber empty. Recently my CW40 has had a nice little jam when I rack the first round. It nose dives into the feed ramp, and will usually go with one more jerk. I noticed with a full mag, the top round, if pushed down will stay pointed lower than normal, and I'm assuming that is what is happening. The ramp is already very smooth, and beyond that I don't know what to try to do to fix it. Any ideas?
Kahr cw40 jam
- Thread starter Blarelli
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The Lone Haranguer
Member
If you have to use it "for real" and this happens, it could be disastrous. It is also possible that subsequent rounds may also fail to feed.
I have two Kahrs myself, a PM9 and a E9, but neither has ever demonstrated this problem. Still, nose-diving of the top round is usually a magazine problem, perhaps weak springs, or the follower worn and tipping or sticking in the tube. Wolff Gunsprings does show mag springs for the Kahrs; a CW40 should use the same mags as the K40, and they would be a lot cheaper than new magazine(s), which are a bit pricey with Kahrs.
Yet another reason to carry with the chamber already loaded.
I have two Kahrs myself, a PM9 and a E9, but neither has ever demonstrated this problem. Still, nose-diving of the top round is usually a magazine problem, perhaps weak springs, or the follower worn and tipping or sticking in the tube. Wolff Gunsprings does show mag springs for the Kahrs; a CW40 should use the same mags as the K40, and they would be a lot cheaper than new magazine(s), which are a bit pricey with Kahrs.
Yet another reason to carry with the chamber already loaded.
wally
Member
Nose dives into the feed ramp are in my experience usually a sign of a weak mag spring, especially if it happens with hand racking. If it happens when firing, it can be from too strong a recoil spring. Dirt/fouling in the mag can also be a factor.
Clean the mag.
Carry with a round in the chamber, the gun was designed for it.
Get a stronger mag spring if necessary or try a different magazine.
--wally.
Clean the mag.
Carry with a round in the chamber, the gun was designed for it.
Get a stronger mag spring if necessary or try a different magazine.
--wally.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
wally said:
Agreed, a bit of dirt, unburned powder granule or whatever can cause the follower to stick or tip.
orionengnr
Member
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Why?
Racking the slide is the least reliable method of chambering a round, especially under duress. You are not duplicating the speed or the smooth movement that the pistol itself generates under recoil.
You are also sacrificing one of the handguns only two real advantages--the first being concealability, the second being one-handed operation.
When chambering from a locked-back slide, does your Kahr work by slingshotting or by using the slide release? Once a round is chambered, do you have any further feeding issues?
My PM9 works fine using the slide release, but that is done at home, when I have plenty of time.
You should have a holster that covers the trigger. If you do, and are still not comfortable carrying the pistol with a round chambered, perhaps you should look at something with a manual safety, or a revolver.
Once a round is chambered, it has never had a jam of any description. I tried putting one less round in the mag, and it solved the problem, so it has something to do with putting the spring under that much stress I guess. I'm going to pull the mag apart tomorrow and clean it really good though. It shouldn't be that bad though. It hasn't been that long since I cleaned it last.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
The Kahr CW series of guns are affordable, very nice weapons. Don't give up
on the CW-40, as this is only a minor problem that can be addressed. I have
a CW-9 myself, and its been totally 100% reliable from day one~!
on the CW-40, as this is only a minor problem that can be addressed. I have
a CW-9 myself, and its been totally 100% reliable from day one~!
Mad Magyar
Member
I've seen this phenomena when the shooter "milks" the rack....
If you read the manual it says the Kahr shouldn't be initially loaded via racking the slide.
You should load the weapon by locking the slide back, then inserting a magazine and finally release the slide with the slide release. (Don't forget to top the magazine off)
It is possible to overhand (or slingshot) rack the slide to charge the weapon, but it can (just like you have experienced) cause the bullets to dive and not slide into the chamber.
The manual clearly states the slide release should be utilized for proper feeding.
/Kahrs are designed to be carried with one in the chamber. If this freaks you out, consider a "Saf-t-block" trigger attachment.
You should load the weapon by locking the slide back, then inserting a magazine and finally release the slide with the slide release. (Don't forget to top the magazine off)
It is possible to overhand (or slingshot) rack the slide to charge the weapon, but it can (just like you have experienced) cause the bullets to dive and not slide into the chamber.
The manual clearly states the slide release should be utilized for proper feeding.
/Kahrs are designed to be carried with one in the chamber. If this freaks you out, consider a "Saf-t-block" trigger attachment.
Mad Magyar
Member
The slide is crazing your finger & thumb as it is released..Just that slight drag will cause a malfunction...In the extreme, it's kind of like someone not wanting to make much noise in a sling-shot rack....
RNB65
Member
It's not unusual for Kahr's to have a problem loading the first round out of the mag. I own a P9 and I've fired two other Kahrs (P9 and P40). All of them have an occasional problem chambering the first round.
I had to send my P9 to Kahr shortly after I got it to fix a chronic cycling problem but the first round feeding problem continues. My P9 now cycles fine during firing but it occasionally needs a forward assist whe loading the first round. Get into the habit of giving the back of the slide a love tap with the palm of your hand when loading the first round.
I believe the problem is caused by a flaw in the design of Kahr mags. Load a mag and wiggle the top round. You'll see that the feed lips don't hold it securely and allows it to tilt up and down a bit. If the first round gets tilted down, it occasionally hangs on the feed ramp.
I truly regret the day I bought a Kahr and plan to trade it on a Walther PPS as soon as I'm satisfied the bugs have been worked out of the PPS.
I had to send my P9 to Kahr shortly after I got it to fix a chronic cycling problem but the first round feeding problem continues. My P9 now cycles fine during firing but it occasionally needs a forward assist whe loading the first round. Get into the habit of giving the back of the slide a love tap with the palm of your hand when loading the first round.
I believe the problem is caused by a flaw in the design of Kahr mags. Load a mag and wiggle the top round. You'll see that the feed lips don't hold it securely and allows it to tilt up and down a bit. If the first round gets tilted down, it occasionally hangs on the feed ramp.
I truly regret the day I bought a Kahr and plan to trade it on a Walther PPS as soon as I'm satisfied the bugs have been worked out of the PPS.
ABBOBERG
Member
I agree that it is a design flaw. My PM9 (bought new in 2004) has always had the top round in a full mag flop up and down, even after getting new factory mags from Kahr. They need to come up with a way to push the rounds evenly when the mag is full. Yes, the spring is under high stress, but that doesn't mean the design can't be changed to correct the problem.
I presented my case to Kook-Jin "Justin" Moon at the 2005 Shot Show and he denied ever hearing about this problem. (This was less than a year after I had sent the gun back to Kahr for this very issue). You'd think the guy who designed the gun would know something about it.
If you really have to carry these small Kahrs, you should always keep a round in the chamber. I have had intermittent failures trying to chamber a round on a full mag at the range, and it is mostly with hollow points. I have not had the gun jam when using a round in the chamber to start off the mag.
also believe that it is a design flaw, which occurs in all (or most Kahrs), regardless of model or caliber. At least, I DO know that it occurs in the 4 different model Kahrs that I’ve checked!
It most likely goes unnoticed, unless you are using some of the more open mouthed, hollow points. However, if you slowly hand feed any round, you will notice the top several rounds will always nose dive (it seems to straighten out after a few rounds). In fact, if you fill the magazine, and look at the top round, you will notice a space/gap between the top round and the one below it (of course, the rear of the casing will be touching, but there will be a “gap” in the front). Then, if you use your thumb to move the top round forward (about a ¼ inch) it will close the gap, by taking a nose dive.
I only noticed this problem recently (after purchasing the cw40). However, I can tell you that the same thing happens in my P9, as well as my buddy’s pm9 and T9. I contacted Kahr and informed them of the problem (I even sent pictures ;-). So far they have ignored me.
One final bit of information. I have looked at more than two dozen other magazines (Taurus, S&W, CZ, Tanfoglio, Beretta, Glock, and several aftermarket types), and NONE of these magazines display that characteristic. Unfortunately, it looks as if owners will have to come up with a fix, without the help of Kahr!
It most likely goes unnoticed, unless you are using some of the more open mouthed, hollow points. However, if you slowly hand feed any round, you will notice the top several rounds will always nose dive (it seems to straighten out after a few rounds). In fact, if you fill the magazine, and look at the top round, you will notice a space/gap between the top round and the one below it (of course, the rear of the casing will be touching, but there will be a “gap” in the front). Then, if you use your thumb to move the top round forward (about a ¼ inch) it will close the gap, by taking a nose dive.
I only noticed this problem recently (after purchasing the cw40). However, I can tell you that the same thing happens in my P9, as well as my buddy’s pm9 and T9. I contacted Kahr and informed them of the problem (I even sent pictures ;-). So far they have ignored me.
One final bit of information. I have looked at more than two dozen other magazines (Taurus, S&W, CZ, Tanfoglio, Beretta, Glock, and several aftermarket types), and NONE of these magazines display that characteristic. Unfortunately, it looks as if owners will have to come up with a fix, without the help of Kahr!
I would say if you "slowly" hand feed any round in a kahr, you arfe going to have issues.
The manual states to use the slide release to load the first round. Why is that??becuase it release witht he same velocity every time, thus mpre proper feeding of the top rounds. When you hand cycle, you tend to "slowly hand feed"
the round and this will not work . If you can't use the slide release to load that first round then indeed the gun needs to go back but if the slide release does the job, then it is not weapon related IMO.
The manual states to use the slide release to load the first round. Why is that??becuase it release witht he same velocity every time, thus mpre proper feeding of the top rounds. When you hand cycle, you tend to "slowly hand feed"
the round and this will not work . If you can't use the slide release to load that first round then indeed the gun needs to go back but if the slide release does the job, then it is not weapon related IMO.
I have the same problem with my CW40.. To resolve simply lock back the slide and release using the slide lock, this has produced a 100% failure free load. This causes an extra step to load a mag, get the 1st round into the pipe releasing the mag and adding the missing round but it works and I've never had a 2nd round misfeed..So I agree with jocko
colorado_handgunner
Member
Agreed with Haraunger, try a new mag or replace the mag spring.
I have three other handguns a SIG, H&K and a Ruger and none of these guns jam on the first round cocking the slide. I don't want to sound rude I am just saying all these reasons why Kahr handguns do this.....why can't they just fix their guns to work like all the rest! They have had enough time to fix this. Why don't we just not buy their guns to force them to fix the problem. I would not buy a gun that starts off on a bad foot...just saying...!
bdb benzino
Member
Necroposting!
It isn't a good sign when your first post on a forum revives an old post and isn't helpful to the thread
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