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Kahr PM9 Break in issue

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by WinkingTiger, Apr 18, 2008.

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  1. WinkingTiger

    WinkingTiger Member

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    I'm having an issue with my NIB Kahr PM9 during the break in period. I have about 150rounds through it and it has a problem extracting unfired rounds.

    I'm using WWB. When I manually rack the slide to extract unfired rounds, the first round doesn't extract. Even if I pull the slide back has hard as possible (and violently work the slide) I can't get the extractor to send the round out of the gun. (The brass of the unfired round gets scratched up real good.)

    I really freaked out the first time it happened because even after pulling the mag out I could not get the unfired round to extract. The way I get it out is to push my index finger on the round (or a pen/stick) and send the unfired round out the bottom where the mag used to be. This is a real PITA as the slide closes real fast as soon as I unjam the round. I make sure to hold the slide open with the other hand otherwise my finger/pen/stick gets hit by the slide.

    I've tried manually cycling with JHP and they manually cycle fine.

    While I was actually firing the gun performed fairly well with a few jams due to failure to extract.

    Since I am almost out of the 200 round break-in period I wanted an opinion on what to do if the problems don't correct themselves.

    1. Clean gun and send another 200 down range
    2. Contact Kahr and try to send it back to the factory
    3. Bring it to a gunsmith that can do a fluff and buff on some of the internal parts
    4. Dump the Kahr, get bigger pockets, and get a Glock 26
     
  2. gilfo

    gilfo Member

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    I would call Kahr. Expect to pay to send it back to them. I hate to down grade the gun. But I had one sent it back to Kahr for repairs and got it back still troublesome. I sold it and bought a CZ Rami Poly and have fired about 500trouble free rounds. It is a little bigger and about 10oz heavier but the piece of mind for ccw is well worth it. You will hear many stories of how great a piece the PM9 is but it did not work out for me. Maybe you will have better luck than I did.
     
  3. Larryect

    Larryect Member

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    I have never had this type of issue with my PM9. I would recommend calling Kahr.
     
  4. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    Take it back to the gun shop where you bought it and raise hell. It should be under warrenty and if the shop is reputible they will make it good...
     
  5. Muddflap

    Muddflap Member

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    Are you saying the empty is coming out of the chamber, but not getting ejected, or is the empty staying in the chamber, and not being extracted?
    You do realize that it has a slide lock right? There is no reason to try and hold the slide back.

    I agree, you need to call Kahr.
     
  6. RNB65

    RNB65 Member

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    You, my friend, are going to be joining the Kahr parade -- the parade of folks driving to their nearest UPS/FedEx depot to return their NIB Kahr poly gun to Kahr because it doesn't work. Sadly, there are many of us. :fire:
    -
     
  7. DAdams

    DAdams Member

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    Send it Back

    Contrary to some statements. Typically you may have to pay the shipping to NY, but I know people who got the shipping covererd both ways. Tell them that S&W pays both ways. :D

    Remember you will get more bees with honey.....

    I sent mine back, had it returned to me in less than 10 days, and it has been fine ever since.

    If it had to go back again it was going on the block, but so far, so good.
     
  8. Cowboy2

    Cowboy2 Member

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    If I'm reading it right, the gun will extract UNFIRED fmj rounds from the chamber, but does not eject them cleanly. No problem with hollow points, though. And no jams while firing. Is that right?
     
  9. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    I've never had this problem with mine - ejected rounds go spinning and flying - but it sure sounds like an extractor problem. Take the slide off and see if the hook/claw (which should be sharp and square) is broken or burred. Or a weak spring may not be pushing the claw into the case groove sufficiently. Also check for debris between the claw and breech face.

    Yes, they do tell you to break it in, but IMO any consistently occurring, major malfunctions like this are unacceptable, regardless of how many/few rounds through it.
     
  10. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Member

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    A good many of these micro and mini autos have problems ejecting UNFIRED rounds.

    The problem is, these guns are right on the edge of what's possible with a full power cartridge, and there simply isn't much room to allow ejection of some loaded rounds.
    Longer bullet rounds, or some more "square tip" hollow point rounds hang up on the front edge of the necessarily small ejection port.

    As example, the Colt Officer's ACP had a circular cut in the lower front of the ejection port, because the gun simply couldn't clear loaded rounds without it.
    On these super tiny autos, you simply can't make the ejection port as large as often needed with some ammo without compromising the structure and strength of the slide.
    Another popular gun that often has live round ejection problems is the .380 Walther PPK.

    I doubt this is anything serious, and Kahr probably will radius the sharp inside edge of the slide's ejection port.

    Your first step is to try a different brand/type of ammo.
    Not all guns "like" all ammo, and it's for this reason you shoot a gun enough to insure it's fully reliable with the ammo selected.
    If it isn't, try something else.
    Ejection of live ammo is part of verifying reliable operation.
    This is no different than discovering a specific ammo fails to feed properly, and the "cure" is usually no more complicated than different ammo.
     
  11. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    The ejection port on this gun is relieved at the front, with a large radiused cutout extending over a quarter inch past the barrel locking shoulder. It should - and does - have no trouble ejecting a loaded round, let alone extracting a fired case and flinging it clear.

    IMO (again) the break-in period is to deal with sporadic and minor (easily clearable) malfunctions like failure to fully eject or go into battery, not complete failures to extract as the OP is describing.
     
  12. gym

    gym member

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    I hesitate to say certain things that I know will set off a barrage of inflamatory responses, but I bought a Kahr, when they first got popular, about 10 years ago, prior or just about when the first 40 caliber came out. I believe the p9, in 9mm of course. I loved the weight and feel of the gun. It was smaller than my glocks, and a great size and shape to wear in an inside the belt, type holster. I ended up selling it because it constsntlly stovepiped. I have had at least 25-30, auto pistols, so I know it wasn't limp wristing or anything I was doing, after returning the gun and having it happen a couple more times at the range, I had to pass on kahr. I found that if I even have to think that my weapon may not work properlly,every time, that it's just not worth having that weapon. I am not speaking about the break in period. That has happemed on only two auto pistoles, and once it happened one time, it happened again. I just saw Dfaris'es post, that was the other gun, the ppk's, very interesting, that those were the same two pistols.
     
  13. FredZiffle

    FredZiffle Member

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    Pm9 owner here...no problems at all...call or email Kahr...they respond quickly ...
    I sent my Kahr in for night sight installation with the barrel and they polished the ramp free...

    fred

    I did pay shipping...
     
  14. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    i'm waiting for an answer to this one too.

    at first i thought "ejector problem" but then the implication is that it was extracting, but not ejecting
     
  15. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Member

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    The Original poster said:

    "When I manually rack the slide to extract unfired rounds, the first round doesn't extract. Even if I pull the slide back has hard as possible (and violently work the slide) I can't get the extractor to send the round out of the gun".

    Key words are "Unfired round" and "send the round out of the gun".

    This is usually a failure of the gun to EJECT an UNFIRED round, not EXTRACT it.
    This is often a case of that specific gun having problems ejecting some loaded rounds due to bullet shape or overall cartridge length.

    While that model of Kahr may be relieved on the front of the ejection port, some guns STILL have the problem.
    This could be a cartridge problem or a gun problem.

    Waiting for the OP to clarify as to how the gun SHOOTS, and whether he's tried different ammo.
     
  16. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    you're right...i was just confused by the OP's misuse of the word extract rather than eject
     
  17. Control

    Control Member

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    I have had 4 Kahr PM9s in my time. Kahr was difficult to get a hold of and I spent a fortune in shipping and time trying to get the darn things to run. Kahr tried to fixed them, replaced them entirely, sent parts, etc.

    Bunny (Kahr rep) did try very hard when I could get her on the phone.

    Failures to extract. Failures to go into battery. Frames that chip away...

    My last PM9 which was another full replacement from Kahr was sold back to my dealer unfired at a loss.

    If I could actually find this perfect Kahr PM9 that others seem to have I would own one. I was not that lucky. Get Kahr to refund you or send you a full new replacement. Then either take the money or sell the replacement unfired back to your dealer and get a Glock 26 or snubby revolver. They work.
     
  18. WinkingTiger

    WinkingTiger Member

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    Pics

    I've been away from the PC for a few days.

    The first pic shows the unfired catridge not being ejected (extracted) when pulling the slide back.

    The second pic shows the slide completely locked up during this condition.
    The jammed round holds the slide open.

    I cannot use the slide stop lever the hold the slide open as the slide is completely jammed up. (picture 2)

    The only think I can do it push hard with a finger or hard object and watch the slide slam shut on it.
    Picture 3 shows the slide held open normally with the slide stop lever.

    I'm headed to the range sometime next week so I will let you know if the condition gets better after I fire another 100.

    If I still have problems I'll give Kahr a call.

    When I went to purchase this gun I kept telling myself "It'll be fine, lots of people got good ones straight from the factory" and "they fixed all the bugs".

    BTW, how do you quote people to properly reply to questions?
     

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  19. WinkingTiger

    WinkingTiger Member

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    I appreciate everyone comments. I'll go to the range sometime next week.

    I'll try different ammo as well.
     
  20. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    in your first picture the round is extracted, it just isn't being ejected.

    is the rim of the case being held by the extractor hook?
     
  21. chuwee81

    chuwee81 Member

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    i dunno if this would help but i've been shooting my 10/22 (rifle) and installed a target barrel - it came with a warning "live rounds may not be extracted" due to tight tolerances. BUt it will eject ANY round while firing. Seems like your gun is new, i'd suggest shooting it more like you said (200 more rds) and see if you could do it manually. If not send the gun in.
     
  22. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    the warning on the target barrel for the 10/22 has to do with it's target chamber.

    the tighter cut chamber actually "grabs" the bullet when it's chambered
     
  23. rlgreen

    rlgreen Member

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    vsix:

    i bought my pm45 on saturday morning 5/2. i had this isssue new out of box and still after 100 rounds of wwb 230fmj and jhp on saturday afternoon. for me, it was happening on both fmj and jhp.

    on sunday i then shot another 200 rounds in a combination of wwb, federal premium 165 grain low recoil, and some junky blazer 230 grain i got cheap at walmart. problem disappeared right around round 208.

    i'm attributing the issue to the unusual way Kahr barrels slide back/forth and up down, together with the insanely tight tolerances on the gun out of the box. right as a round is chambered, the barrel actually moves up and forward to be re-locked into the frame (that's why the barrel looks canted if viewed from the side with the slide to the rear). when the gun was brand new, the nose of the round (the rim for my jhp's) coming out of the mag was, i believe, catching on the upward moving barrel...which is why we couldn't get the slide back any further. the space in the chamber had literally changed (that is, momentarily shrunk).

    anyway, once the thing shot thru its warm up (even my kimber gold match took the recommended 400 rounds to really operate smoothly) it was fine both at the range and hand cycling all sorts of ammo and snap caps.

    i'd be interested in an update on what you did and how its going.
     
  24. rlgreen

    rlgreen Member

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    actually, i've thought about this some more and think i have it backwards, its not the barrel coming forward we're catching on, its the barrel coming back. the barrel moves back and down as the slide goes back. that's were the chamber shrinks, which is ok if the round has been fired and the only thing that needs to clear is case, but when we hand cycle, we're trying to put a projectile and a case in the same space engineered for only a case....anyway, if my experience wasn't a fluke. keep shooting it and it'll be fine.
     
  25. 420Stainless

    420Stainless Member

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    I must be missing something. I've never expected a pistol to fling a cartridge clear of the weapon. Usually when I unload, I remove the magazine and then roll the pistol over so that the ejection port is facing down. Then pull the slide and hold it back until the round falls out the port or down through the grip.

    I always assumed there was never intended to be enough force to fling the cartridge with the weight of the bullet still present. Only the empty brass.

    Should a pistol be expected to cleanly eject an unfired cartridge in the upright position with the magazine still in place?
     
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