Kahr PM9 Experience?

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I have had my CM9 for a little over 10 years now. At the time I bought it I was also looking at the Beretta Nano. I didn't care for the design or it's ergonomics; the grip frame just felt awkward. I felt much more comfortable with the CM9 when I handled it; like it was made for my smaller hand size. Other than the fact that it came with only one mag, I have had no problems to report.
 
Gem and I got the bad apples in the production.:)

"Jam" by whatever term you wish to use. FTF. FTE,Stove Pipe, Fail to Feed
Yes, one less round in the mag and let the slide strip a round was useful. It is a tight well made gun.
So even though I hate the term 'breaking in" mine certainly needed to.
If I recall, they would not mess with gun until it had 200 rounds through it.

BREAK-IN PERIOD
The KAHR Pistol must run through an initial
break-in period before achieving fully reliable
feeding and functioning. The pistol should not
be considered fully reliable until after it has fired
200 rounds.
 
GONRA sez - WrongHanded's post advice is what every selfloading firearm operator needs!
DO NOT GET INTO THE BAD HABIT OF DROPPING A CARTRIDGE INTO THE CHAMBER
AND LETTING THE SLIDE SLAM HOME!
ALWAYS LOAD FROM THE MAGAZINE!
 
GONRA said:
GONRA sez - WrongHanded's post advice is what every selfloading firearm operator needs!
DO NOT GET INTO THE BAD HABIT OF DROPPING A CARTRIDGE INTO THE CHAMBER
AND LETTING THE SLIDE SLAM HOME!
ALWAYS LOAD FROM THE MAGAZINE!
Click to expand...

The issue was not loading an individual round into the chamber. It was (apparently) that many people were putting a full magazine in the gun with the slide forward, pulling the slide to the rear, and then trying to lower it, rather than letting it go so that it moved forward as it would after recoil. This resulted in the cartridge nosediving into the front of the magazine and getting stuck.

Or so I read...
 
WrongHanded said:
This is purely based on what I've read elsewhere on the internet. But I heard a lot of people have had issues feeding the first round from a magazine. Apparently Kahr saw it as significant enough of an issue, to address chambering in the manual. And that was to say something akin to "lock the slide back, insert the full magazine, depress slide release lever."

Was yours jamming sporadically?
Click to expand...

Good question
I have delt with that and the fix most owners do is described on Kahrtalk.com and is a follower mod and a feed ramp polish.
I will have to search for that that thread and will edit this post with a link.

There is an aftermarket follower that mimics that mod but is made of aluminum"
Metal Magazine Follower for 9mm Kahr™ (lakelinellc.com)
I have 2 of those but have not shot either of my Kahrs with them installed.
And for a few more $ you can get a complete Pro mag with a similar follower:
Kahr® K9, P9, & E9 9mm (7) Rd - Blue Steel - ProMag Industries

The long story...
The problem was traced to the amount of "fanning" of ammo in the mag that is improved (but not eliminated) with the follower mod.
Even with the mods if you ride the slide while (slowly) loading the 1st round out of a full mag the nose of that round will drop down when its rim falls into the groove in front of the rim in the round below it.
So instead of being angled up it becomes parallel to the bore and bumps hard into the feed ramp.

That's why Kahr added using the slide release to chamber the 1st round to it's manual, that will prevent the jamming associated with chambering the 1st round.
Whew, a lot of words right there :uhoh:.

What I have found
I like to unload my carry gun when I'm at home and have found that the bullet of a round gets moved back when chambering from a full mag.
If I put that previously chambered round back in the mag to be chambered again, that bullet setback will continue, and the bullet will fall into the case after 3 re-chamberings, mostly with hollow point defense ammo. :what:
I have read were the P365 had that problem (bullet pushed into the case) and blew out the extractor when fired because of the added pressure.
I'm sure others who don't re-chamber the same hollow point round have never experienced this and have not had this problem.

What I do now
I put a single round in spare mag, with the follower mod, and chamber that round, remove and replace that mag with a full mag for carry.
Problem solved, for me anyways.
There is no fanning of ammo because there's only one round it that mag and it stays angled up and enters the chamber without bumping the ramp.

Understand this is just what I have found and done and may be just my guns and gun specific.
I'm not looking for any debate amongst other Kahr owners/experts, as this is just my experiences and remedies.
jmo,
.
 
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I've had a pm9 for a few years. It was used when I bought it and came with a broken takedown pin. There was a new pin in the gun, and the broken one in the box. So, someone must have not trusted it. I've never had an issue at all with it. The trigger is super smooth long pull. Perfect size for pocket carry. I've recently started carrying my p365 in front pocket, and that's almost too big. The pm9 was much lighter too and smaller in all dimensions.
 
Rule3 said:
Gem and I got the bad apples in the production.:)

"Jam" by whatever term you wish to use. FTF. FTE,Stove Pipe, Fail to Feed
Yes, one less round in the mag and let the slide strip a round was useful. It is a tight well made gun.
So even though I hate the term 'breaking in" mine certainly needed to.
If I recall, they would not mess with gun until it had 200 rounds through it.

BREAK-IN PERIOD
The KAHR Pistol must run through an initial
break-in period before achieving fully reliable
feeding and functioning. The pistol should not
be considered fully reliable until after it has fired
200 rounds.
Click to expand...
Yep, I handled the "break-in" by putting on some work gloves and racked the slide a couple of hundred times...twice/ 2 days in a row.
I sling shotted the slide/didn't ride it back either.
With ammo prices what they are you could spend more on break-in ammo than the gun. :scrutiny:
Most shoot FMJ ammo and not much defense ammo and never experience the fall to feed stuff.
 
I don't like the kahr trigger, not one bit. I know some compare it to a revolver trigger, I disagree . it's like a mushier super creepy glock trigger that resets all the way at the front. I'm not a trigger snob at all, I find factory glock triggers totally acceptable and don't have any need to modify them. I've owned 2 kahrs, a 40 & a 45, both cw models - may not pertain to the pm models . both were unpleasant to shoot and the 45 wore out in about 300 rounds. Not broke, just wore to the point that the slide would rise up 1/4" when I pulled the trigger and it wouldn't feed reliably because the tolerances were beyond loose. Lost faith in the brand.

I still have the 40, I never shoot it but I keep it under my spare tire just in case . I don't care what happens to it , its a miserable pistol. It works fine but it's snappy and I despise the trigger.

I know some models are better made in some way but I disliked the fact they would bother selling a product as poor as the 2 I've owned. If a modern pistol can't fire at least a couple thousand rounds without completely wearing out, it's not worth squat.

Lots of guys love the brand and I'm not knocking you but my experience was nothing but terrible. Nice size guns but frail and finicky in my experience.

If you get one that has some longevity and you can deal with the trigger it should be a very good gun, I might try another some day but I'd advise steering clear of the cw models.
 
Obturation said:
I don't like the kahr trigger, not one bit. I know some compare it to a revolver trigger, I disagree . it's like a mushier super creepy glock trigger that resets all the way at the front. I'm not a trigger snob at all, I find factory glock triggers totally acceptable and don't have any need to modify them. I've owned 2 kahrs, a 40 & a 45, both cw models - may not pertain to the pm models . both were unpleasant to shoot and the 45 wore out in about 300 rounds. Not broke, just wore to the point that the slide would rise up 1/4" when I pulled the trigger and it wouldn't feed reliably because the tolerances were beyond loose. Lost faith in the brand.

I still have the 40, I never shoot it but I keep it under my spare tire just in case . I don't care what happens to it , its a miserable pistol. It works fine but it's snappy and I despise the trigger.

I know some models are better made in some way but I disliked the fact they would bother selling a product as poor as the 2 I've owned. If a modern pistol can't fire at least a couple thousand rounds without completely wearing out, it's not worth squat.

Lots of guys love the brand and I'm not knocking you but my experience was nothing but terrible. Nice size guns but frail and finicky in my experience.

If you get one that has some longevity and you can deal with the trigger it should be a very good gun, I might try another some day but I'd advise steering clear of the cw models.
Click to expand...

I appreciate you sharing your experience.
 
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I purchased a CM9 to replace a Sig P238HD that I found a bit too heavy for what it was. The P238 is an awesome little .380acp but the CM9 served the same role (pocket carry in a Desantis Nemesis holster). The CM9, which is identical to the PM9 but the "economical" version, was my primary carry for some time before being replaced several years later by the P365. I now carry a G19 Gen4 nearly exclusively (kydex IWB holster) but I have nothing negative to say about the CM9.

24579424499_64664112d9_c.jpg
 
A PM9 was my first 9mm. I had a couple fail to feed in one mag with one particular ammo type after about 1100 rounds. At Kahrs advice changed the recoil assembly. It's a solid choice if you like the trigger. That little pistol is surprisingly accurate and was great for pocket or even belt for me for a number of years. Being left handed I actually appreciate the largish slide stop using the knuckle of my trigger finger to lock the slide back with a loaded mag. These days rare pocket carry gets a j or lcr, or hellcat.
 
unclenunzie said:
A PM9 was my first 9mm. I had a couple fail to feed in one mag with one particular ammo type after about 1100 rounds. At Kahrs advice changed the recoil assembly. It's a solid choice if you like the trigger. That little pistol is surprisingly accurate and was great for pocket or even belt for me for a number of years. Being left handed I actually appreciate the largish slide stop using the knuckle of my trigger finger to lock the slide back with a loaded mag. These days rare pocket carry gets a j or lcr, or hellcat.
Click to expand...
It was also my first 9mm. Trigger was long and smooth, not too light or too heavy. I wish my P365 had the same trigger feel, because it feels like a gritty mess by comparison.
 
Had a .380 and 9mm Kahr; liked the size and the feel of the .380 especially.
Three gripes, tho'. The 200 round break-in (they can't make a gun ready to shoot out of the box?), the 'three men and a boy' effort to rack the slide, and the habit of the spare magazine shedding rounds.
The slide effort, and the 'charge from slide lock', is what finally sent me elsewhere. It was so hard to charge that I figured I'd never clear a jam under stress. And yes, that beat up the top round, and the slide effort thing made it hard to clear as well. Solved the spare mag shedding rounds with the little leather covers I made for pocket storage.
The 9mm sheered its front sight, and that was the last straw.
Pocket a G42 or a P365, and the SIG chambers a round so easily that you can 'ride the slide' when chambering.
Danny Reagan still carries a Kahr 9mm on Blue Bloods, tho'. ;)
Moon
 
WrongHanded said:
As someone who owns both a PM9 and a Sig P365, what's your opinion on the difference in grip size and feel? I know everyone is different, but your perspective would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

365 grip is more hand filling; I carry it with the pinky rest mag and it affords overall better hold on pistol.
The triggers are different; 365 is light and easy for my left hand finger, PM9 is not heavy but its more revolver like in feel.
365vsPM9a.jpg

365vsPM9b.jpg

365vsPM9c.jpg

The Kahr is probably less likely to print in a pocket if that pocket is not partially covered by a untucked shirt.
I disdain shirt tucking, don't have to and don't. 365 in weak hand front pocket plus Glock on belt, in a "good area" - that is the way.

Not directed toward OP: if you are a unrequired shirt tucker, just stop, nobody cares, untuck that shirt and carry a decent gun, or two.
 
I started carrying Kahr pistols about 10 years ago... first a CW9, then a CM9. I picked up a used PM9... the full-boat blacked-out pistol with night sights. The PM9 pistol is very nice, but I don't know if the price premium is worth it over the less expensive CM9, and particularly as a carry pistol.

Generalizations: I have never had feeding problems with any of my C-series pistols. I have had something like 7 CW9's (I still have 3...) and my CM9; they were/are 100% The PM9 seems to be a little more picky, for some reason, but it may be the pistol itself. Mine has what I believe a weak slide stop pin retention spring (wire, whatever...) and I need to replace it... hopefully that will improve the feeding reliability.

I think the Kahr sweet spot is the 9mm. I have a CW45... it is strictly a range pistol, I don't trust the reliability. I had a full-boat P45, which I really wanted for a carry pistol, and it, too, had issues (what I believe was a short chamber.) I traded it for another 100% CW9.

CM9 vs CW9: I used to carry the CM9 a LOT, because of it's size... it simply packs better. But. In shooting drills, I found the smaller grip of the PM9/CM9 rotated down in the palm of my hand, and many of my shots were going quite low. For this reason, I started to pack the CW9, instead, and using the M's as backup guns. That, of course, is just me, I have big hands and never have been able to shoot small pistols (with smallish grips) well. The whole idea of a carry piece is, well, to be able to hit your target with some amount of reliability... so I switched.

Trigger: I like the Kahr trigger. It's essentially a DA revolver pull, but much smoother. Yes, you MUST train for it to be able to master it... the longish pull can get you if you are trying to anticipate the letoff. At first, it seems like the trigger is a mile long... is my finger ever going to get there??? But once you run 100 rounds through it, concentrating on pulling the trigger with your finger (not your entire hand...) you will likely find it very good.
 
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@1KPerDay thanks for the video. Very helpful!

@Charlie98 thank you for the in depth analysis.

Regarding the trigger: I spent time shooting with my right (non dominant) hand using a full size 1911 with a very nice trigger. But I also spent some decent range time shooting a Sig P224 DA/SA from the holster, which of course requires the DA trigger. I'm not sure how the Kahr DA trigger compares, but it sounds like it might be similar. I'm still trying to locate one to see how it feels to me.
 
I can't remember the details of the jams so many years ago. I do think that a gun that comes with explicit instructions that it needs 200 rounds to work has a problematic manufacturer. Yes, some of my others needed break in rounds but that should not happen for any company. Today that's about $70 of ammo.

Would a car sell if it needed 200 miles to reliably start?
 
Charlie98
Trigger: I like the Kahr trigger. It's essentially a DA revolver pull, but much smoother. Yes, you MUST train for it to be able to master it... the longish pull can get you if you are trying to anticipate the letoff. At first, it seems like the trigger is a mile long... is my finger ever going to get there??? But once you run 100 rounds through it, concentrating on pulling the trigger with your finger (not your entire hand...) you will likely find it very good
Click to expand...

The Kahr DAO trigger is what sold me on getting one. I wanted something that was similar to the DA triggers on my two S&W J frames that I use for concealed carry. I found that pulling the trigger straight through instead of trying to anticipate where and when the break is coming, works best for me with the CM9.
 
GEM said:
I can't remember the details of the jams so many years ago. I do think that a gun that comes with explicit instructions that it needs 200 rounds to work has a problematic manufacturer. Yes, some of my others needed break in rounds but that should not happen for any company. Today that's about $70 of ammo.

Would a car sell if it needed 200 miles to reliably start?
Click to expand...

I've bought about 5 of my 9mm Kahrs brand new, none of them, including my CM9, needed any break-in... they were 100% right out of the box. As someone previously mentioned, maybe I won the Kahr lottery with good pistols... dunno. The Kahr pistol is generally intended as a SD pistol, you would think anyone buying one to carry would run at least 200 rounds through it for familiarization before packing it... but that is just my opinion. That is not to say Kahr doesn't kick out a lemon once in a while. I was in CTD once, buying my 3rd CW9, and as I was filling out The Paperwork, he went and got a pistol from stock. While he was finishing the paperwork, I checked the pistol for function... the trigger wouldn't release until you smashed it back against the frame... it was awful, and... obviously... defective. I asked him to get me a different pistol, which he was not happy about. He told me to send it back to Kahr. I told HIM to send it back to Kahr, and go get me a different pistol. I still have that pistol... that is to say, the 2nd pick. ;)

bannockburn said:
Charlie98


The Kahr DAO trigger is what sold me on getting one. I wanted something that was similar to the DA triggers on my two S&W J frames that I use for concealed carry. I found that pulling the trigger straight through instead of trying to anticipate where and when the break is coming, works best for me with the CM9.
Click to expand...

That's the biggest mistake people make with the Kahr... trying to stage or anticipate the let off. If you train to pull straight through the trigger, and... as I mentioned... not pull the last 1/4" with your entire hand, it's an excellent trigger. Yes, I speak from experience. If you ask me, it's a far better trigger than the first pull of a DA/SA auto, and you don't have the changeover to deal with, either.
 
i've had 4 kahrs, a pm9, a pm40, a cw40, and a k9
of them all, the k9 was the only one i'd trust for a ccw.
The two pm's were plauged with feeding problems and I got rid of them pretty quickly
the cw40 was also a train wreck requiring multiple new parts from Kahr before it kind of ran

the k9 has been utterly reliable
 
WrongHanded said:
But I also spent some decent range time shooting a Sig P224 DA/SA from the holster, which of course requires the DA trigger. I'm not sure how the Kahr DA trigger compares, but it sounds like it might be similar. I'm still trying to locate one to see how it feels to m
Click to expand...
The triggers of the Kahr entry level pistols CW9 and CM9 don't feel anything like the P224 DA trigger. They are both lighter and smoother. A closer comparison would be the SIG 2022 or P250

bannockburn said:
I wanted something that was similar to the DA triggers on my two S&W J frames that I use for concealed carry.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that you can make a Kahr trigger as heavy as that on the J-frames.

The trigger on my current CW9 is much like a tuned K-frame. The trigger on my friend's CM9 was more like a stock K-frame. The K-frame guns are inherently smoother and lighter than the J-frame because of the different geometry of the action...the leaf spring vs. the coil spring also contributes to this advantage
 
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