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Keep it, fix it or sell it?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by BSA1, Mar 16, 2013.

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  1. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    I have a Model 10-7 with a 4” tapered barrel. The gun has loose spot in barrel where the barrel screws in to the frame which has previously discussed on this thread;

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=708078

    On my first range session the gun shot to left but since I was using the undersize magna service grips and white paint on the front sight I could not rule out shooter error. So yesterday I shot the gun side by side with another Model 10 that has the heavy barrel. I shot both guns from a rest and used the same pair of grips. Conclusion this gun definately shots to the left.

    So that leaves me with three choices with what to do with it:

    a) Leave it in the condition it is in as it has acceptable combat accuracy.
    b) They don’t make them anymore so replace the barrel with a different one.
    c) Sell/trade it.

    Your vote???

    3 yards slighty to the left. Maybe?

    [​IMG]

    7 yards more to the left.

    [​IMG]

    15 yards leaves no doubt.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  2. Reloadron
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    Reloadron Member

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  3. Tony_the_tiger

    Tony_the_tiger Member

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    Send it to S&W for repair.
     
  4. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Because the threads on the barrel are very fine, I would worry that the frame as well as the back of the barrel might be expanded, and a new one might not turn up and stay tight. Also S&W may not have any barrels left, or keeping what they have for warrantee repairs. In addition a barrel change requires special blocks to support the frame and barrel, as otherwise the frame can be warped and ruined.

    I suggest that you call the company and obtain an opinion on what they will or won't do, and if you are willing to pay the price suggest that if they don't have a barrel you will try to obtain one from an outside source.

    Get your ducks in a row as to who can do what - and then decide what direction to go.

    Last but not least, if you widen the rear sight notch slightly on the right side the group will move in that direction. That's far less expensive then changing barrels. :cool:
     
  5. glider1

    glider1 Member

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    I wouldn't want to put alot of money in a model 10. I also wouldn't sell a gun that had a problem without telling a buyer about it. You're kinda between a rock and a hard place. Seems like about the only choice you have is to fix it, I'd call S&W and see if I could send it to them for repair. It might not be as much as you think to fix it and they'll tell you how much before they do it. Worst case is you'll have to much money in the gun and we've all been there.
     
  6. beag_nut

    beag_nut Member

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    Leave it as-is.
     
  7. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    I am fairly certain S&W will not replace the barrel on a gun this old. They refused to reblue a Model 10-6 I sent in for repair because the rep. said they would not take a chance damaging the gun by removing the barrel for refinishing it.

    Beside as already noted spare barrels are not hard to come by and should not be much of a job for a true gunsmith.

    Old Fuff your comment about the frame is my biggest worry since there is no way to know in advance if a replacement barrel will fit.

    As for not selling it as it is there is nothing here to suggest that it won't shoot p.o.a. for another shooter. I shoot right handed with my dominant left eye so fixed sight guns are sometimes a challenge.
     
  8. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    The "loose" spot is probably not causing it to print left.. it's the sights. It seems reasonably accurate, it just prints left. There's no guarantee whatsoever that a new barrel will be better regulated.. odds are it'll be worse. You could send/bring it to an old time revolver smith and he'll whack the barrel with a hunk of lead to move the poi over to the right if you want.. or file and or build up the front and or file the rear notch a bit. I'd leave it alone and shoot it.. hold off if you've gotta hit a rattler in the eye at 25 yards.
     
  9. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    The loose spot is not causing it to print left. I would bench the sixgun and if it doesn't shoot into 2"@25yds with any good load, have the barrel replaced.
     
  10. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    You are probably right, but it might pay to ask, and your odds are better if you offer to provide the barrel. Keep in mind that they have all of the necessary tooling, jigs, and fixtures that few "true gunsmiths" do.

    That said, given the value of the revolver vs. the total cost of changing the barrel, I would sooner open the rear sight notch to the right (which would shift the group in that direction).

    It is also possible (and not uncommon) that the barrel hole in the frame is slightly angled, but still within specification. This can be determined by using a special plug gage (available from www.brownells.com) but again it's unlikely you'll find a gunsmith that has one.

    All of which brings us by to modifying the rear or front sight to better center the group, or simply leaving things as they are.
     
  11. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    What ammo, bullet weight, etc, were you testing with??

    rc
     
  12. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    You might even be able to bend the front sight the tiniest bit for some help.. heck, it might already be bent, resulting in your issue.
     
  13. ohsobad

    ohsobad Member

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    my rossi .357 with a 2in barrel does the same thing,shoots left farther and farther at longer distances
     
  14. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    I'd live with it.

    If you really want to "fix" it, get a thin sheet of metal and epoxy a bit to the right side of the front sight. This will have the effect of moving the center of the sight right, and will correct for windage.
     
  15. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    Certaindeaf, I thought about a whack or two with a lead babbit. I’m just not sure how many gunsmiths still know how to use one.

    Rcmodel, My reload is 158 gr. LSWC, probably 4.5 gr. W-231 and WSP.

    As for grouping this is a 7 yd. group shot with the control Model 10-6 with same lot of reloads;
    [​IMG]
     
  16. 5-SHOTS

    5-SHOTS Member

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    Or let a good gunsmith work on the front sight to adjust POI to POA with your favourite loads. For not too much money I think you can have the fixed front sight removed and replaced for a new one (pinned or drift adjustable). OK, maybe I'm going too forward...

    Judging from your pics the 10-7 has the same practical accuracy of the 10-6. One more reason to have the sights adjusted a bit on the 10-7.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  17. BYJO4

    BYJO4 Member

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    I would not put much money into it. If my gunsmith could adjust point of impact by using a babbit, I would try it as would cost very little. Otherwise, I would sell it and find a replacement that shot the way I wanted it to.
     
  18. tomrkba

    tomrkba Member

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    I'm in the "never-sell-a-gun-in-this-political-climate" bunch. Fix it if you care about it. Does the cost of the gun plus repair cost less than another Model 10?
     
  19. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    If it was more than 4" off at 25 yards, it'd bother me, a lot.. unless it grouped like a house afire.. then I'd either fix it or hold off. it's not really a big deal to hold off especially if you are used to it/it's your main/only gun etc
     
  20. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    All you need to do is move the bullseye to the left a little.

    See, you can shoot at it there, and hit it here.
    Tape a second target under the first one and take pictures of it to post on the net!!
    10-X's all day!!!

    Or Fuggedaboutit It ,and enjoy using a fixed sight gun the way they need to be sometimes used.

    rc
     
  21. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    I doubt very much that S&W (or any other company) would agree to install a part they don't provide, even if it was made by them. General policy, pretty much across the board.

    Jim
     
  22. BCRider

    BCRider Member

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    On the short sight baseline length of a 4 inch barrel the amount of bend to the front sight or filing of the rear sight we're talking about to shift the group over is about the thickness of a business card. So Old Fuff's suggestion is certainly a workable one.

    The other option would be that the barrel is not quite tightened to the frame fully far enough to situate the front blade exactly at 12 o'clock. Or it may have "shot loose" by a little over the gun's lifetime. At least given that it's either a 10-5 or 10-7 (you've written it as both between the two threads) I'm guessing that it's not a pinned barrel. If this is the case a smith would require less than an hour's worth of shop time to check it and clock the barrel to extactly top dead center.
     
  23. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    If it was more than 4" off at 25 yards, it'd bother me, a lot..

    It is. I didn’t waste my time to photograph the 25 yard target.

    At least given that it's either a 10-5 or 10-7 (you've written it as both between the two threads) I'm guessing that it's not a pinned barrel.

    Gun is a Model 10-7 with pinned barrel. Sorry for the confusion.

    If this is the case a smith would require less than an hour's worth of shop time to check it and clock the barrel to extactly top dead center.

    That is the purpose of the lead babitt. The secret is knowing where to whack. In my young days the department armorer would sight in Model 10’s during qualification on the range with his trusty babitt.

    Does the cost of the gun plus repair cost less than another Model 10?

    Depends on which repair we are talking about? A whack or two with a lead babitt absolutely less.

    Barrel replacement is probably going to be more than buying another Model 10by the time a new barrel, gunsmith fee and shipping is figured in.

    Actually spending a little more in repair than the cost of another gun isn’t the issue. The issue is, as Old Fuff pointed out, is if the threads in the frame have been damaged when the barrel bulged. At the very least I bet there is a heck of tight fit between the barrel and frame now.

    All you need to do is move the bullseye to the left a little.

    Shush! ;-)
     
  24. BCRider

    BCRider Member

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    If having someone whack the barrel with a big slug of soft metal is accpetable to you then why not do it yourself? I'm seeing that you're not happy with the gun as it is and that it was previously damaged slightly from the bulge. So what really do you have to lose?

    A couple of end grain softwood support blocks to support the parts you don't want to bend then a pad of two layers of heavy leather such as an old belt and a dead blow hammer (it's hard to find a big hunk o' babbit or lead these days) are all you need.

    The trick to the process is to give it a light to moderate blow that you're pretty sure won't do much and then to try a few shots. If there's a slight change then use a few more blows of the same strength to ease it over a little more. If there's no change then set it up and hit it a little harder the next time. If you should go too far then a light rap or two the other way will bring it back again.

    Being a model 10 the trick would seem to be to keep the bending out beyond the front ejector rod spring button. On the other hand if the barrel bulged unevenly and the crane doesn't sit smoothly in the frame any longer some careful and judicious bending between the frame and spring button lug might be a good idea.

    I know that many will be sitting their with ashen faces at my suggestion. But if it's "broken" as far as you are concerned then what is the worst that will happen? If you foul it up it'll go to a smith to be re-barreled. Which is what some are suggesting anyway. So thumping it around a little on your own isn't going to cost you any more for money wise than it would if you don't have a go at it. A least that's how it looks from where I'm sitting.
     
  25. Jaymo

    Jaymo Member

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    Since you're cross-dominant, have you tried shooting it with your weak hand?
    Every shooter should learn to shoot weak handed. You never know when you'll need to.
    I think I'd get it adjusted.
     
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