Keep Protecting The Wolves?

They eliminated wolves years ago and the bleeding heart tree huggers are doing everything they can to brimg them back.
There will never be peace between these two factions.
Let the chips fall where they fall.
 
Fine Figure of a Man said:
Protected or not, there are plenty of local people will and do "take care of" wolves in their neighborhood.
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Between license plate readers, the ballistic forensics the game departments are now using, that's not a good idea. I am "against" the wolves, but I sure would not risk my hunting license, thousands of dollars, and my clean record to shoot a wolf. (I had two come in to my predator call, when calling cougar one day) And, shooting a wolf here and there on occasion isn't going to make much of a difference.

Here is the bottom line. The vast vast vast huge areas of wilderness required to support a wolf population no longer exists. The gigantic herds of buffalo no longer exist. There is no way there is enough habitat for them to exist on our now over populated continent. It no longer exists. Poof. Gone. This is where the "we want the wolves" people are totally and completely ignorant and missing the point. Sincere ignorance. Conscientious stupidity. I repeat, the vast areas of wilderness, like in Northern Canada and Alaska, no longer exist in the lower U.S. We have some "large" areas, but to support wolves without wiping out the deer and elk VAST areas are required. And, free roaming herds of buffalo help.

Although I'm against the wolves, I don't hate the wolves, and I think to "reintroduce" them, and then subject them to what would be required to control them, is pretty inhumane. Here in Northeast Washington state, they have gunned down whole packs that were preying on livestock, from helicopters, instead of opening up a hunting season on them. The wolf lovers are the wolves worst enemy. The issue will never be solved, and it will never end well.

"Let them be" "They gotta eat"?? That's like letting homeless strangers (the homeless reintroduction act?) enter your house at anytime, and eating your food. Or taking your stuff, because they have to eat, and they need your stuff. :)
 
Ugly
You must be a carpenter, you hit the nail right on the head.
The Methow Vally uses to have large herds of deer and elk along with the cougers and bears.
Once the implanted collared wolf packs showed up the deer and elk population went to almost nonexistant.
The deer and elk just didn t wonder off in to disney land next door, they are gone.
Once the wild game disapeared they started feeding on domestic farm animals.
In my oppinion the only good wolf is a dead wolf.
 
Fine Figure of a Man said:
A poacher someone that shoots a big buck in the middle of the night or kills 3 limits of ducks in a day.
Killing an apex predator in your own neighborhood is not in the same category.
I have never killed a wolf, lack of opportunity is the only reason.
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While not the same a killing a big buck in the middle of the night, shooting a wolf right now with them being protected by the ESA, is similar to shooting 3 limits of ducks in a day. A violation of Federal law. Punishable by up to a year in prison and a $100,000 fine. It is also still considered "Poaching", thus making one that does it, a poacher. I doubt if you will ever see an opportunity to shoot a wolf in Iowa, so it'd easily understandable why you know so little about them and their management. Similar to a lot of folks. Here in Wisconsin, Black Bears are also considered apex predators, yet they, like wolves are still vulnerable to another apex predator, humans. Folks kill Black bears in their back yard all the time........legally. At some point, folks here will be able to legally kill wolves too. I doubt if that time is very far off, and I see it as a responsible way to manage them. Still, there will those that will prefer to "poach" them if given the opportunity. Similar to shooting that big buck in the middle of the night.

Fine Figure of a Man said:
Then you should have no worries.
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I don't. Since most poachers are lousy and lazy hunters, I highly doubt if they would ever kill them all. Since the hunting season on them here is so heavily regulated, when it is legal, I also doubt legal hunters will kill them all. When Wisconsin first became a state, there were an estimated 5000 wolves in the state and yet we had elk, deer and wild turkeys. It was man that eradicated the Wild Turkeys, and elk in the state, and decimated the deer herd with unregulated hunting.....not the wolves. I understand why folks had such a bad connotation of them, you know, the depredation on domestic livestock and that famous story.....Little Red Riding Hood.
 
Terry G said:
Wolves are a protected species in Wisconsin, and there is a big push on to de-list wolves. Wolves kill about one Domestic Dog every month. Not a lot, but someone's Pet. I hike a lot with my Dog and have seen Wolf Packs exactly twice in the last ten years. They spot or scent me and their gone. I don't allow my Dog to "Free Range". If she's outside I'm outside. The last three Dog's killed were running free. The owners just let their Dog's out in the early morning and in two cases went back to bed. Now we should start killing Wolves because they depredate unsupervised Pet's? There's no record of a Wolf attacking a Human in Wisconsin since like ......never. So do we open a Season on Wolf's? I'm totally against it. These Dog's that were killed were not on the Owner's property. All were some distance (3 to 6 miles) away.
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Pardon me for not reading all the posts.

If the wolves are not a danger to humans, or livestock, then leave them be is my opinion. Much like snakes.

I won't kill a snake around the house unless it's venomous. Venomous snakes in town are a totally different matter than venomous snakes out in the woods away from populated residential areas. I would view a wolf in the same light.

I'm sure people can cherry pick all kinds of scenarios for either side of the coin. Frankly, so can I. It's circumstantial. But in general, I won't kill a wolf just to kill a wolf. There has to be a decent reason and logic behind it.
 
Highland Lofts said:
The Methow Vally uses to have large herds of deer and elk along with the cougers and bears.
Once the implanted collared wolf packs showed up the deer and elk population went to almost nonexistant.
The deer and elk just didn t wonder off in to disney land next door, they are gone.
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It's "Meadow Valley" and there were never large herds of elk there when wolves with collars showed up. They were eradicated from the state in the 1880s, and have only recently been reintroduced in central Wisconsin. I've hunted that area since the 1950s and never saw any sign of cougars. Bears in Central Wisconsin were effectively "extinct" before 1900 with their numbers confined to the Northern part of the state. Even there, bear numbers were so low, that the state eliminated the bear season in 1985. Funny how those bear numbers took off like wildfire after the wolves reintroduced themselves....and yes, I have seen blackies in Meadow Valley since then. We even have a season on them now there.

In the 1800s, there were elk in the area now known as Meadow Valley, mainly because it was an Oak Savannah landscape. This landscape was also the primary breeding grounds for a bird that once blackened the skies when they migrated. That bird, the passenger pigeon is now extinct, the last one shot in the wild just north of the Meadow Valley Wildlife area near Babcock Wi. Again, man, not wolves. The landscape in Meadow Valley was drastically changed by folks who thought it might make for great farmland because of what they thought was "Black Dirt". So they dug drainage ditches to drain the swamps and cut down the oaks for firewood and lumber. They soon found out that the "Black Dirt" was just peat and quickly was lost once it was plowed and cultivated. Soon, with nothing left but sugar sand, the farmers moved away, leaving a large track of land that was reclaimed by the Federal and state governments. Since it was worthless at that time for anything but planting pines, it became controlled by the Feds and the State. It still is and is a little diamond in the rough in Central Wisconsin. If one knows where to look, you can still find those drainage ditches and old stone foundations. Sometimes in the spring, you can find the bones of draft horses that the frost brings back to the surface, and every once and a while you come across a fencepost in the middle of a swamp. Not nearly as much as I did as a kid, but I still know where to look.
 
Highland Lofts said:
Ugly
You must be a carpenter, you hit the nail right on the head.
The Methow Vally uses to have large herds of deer and elk along with the cougers and bears.
Once the implanted collared wolf packs showed up the deer and elk population went to almost nonexistant.
The deer and elk just didn t wonder off in to disney land next door, they are gone.
Once the wild game disapeared they started feeding on domestic farm animals.
In my oppinion the only good wolf is a dead wolf.
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Well, I would say the only good wolf is one left alone in Canada or Alaska, and not jerked out of it's natural environment and dropped into a populated hostile one. :) Einstein would be proud of that decision.

It's funny that some argue that the wolves don't have an impact on deer and elk. I've seen it first hand. Also, we had a small herd of Woodland Caribou up North, on the border, and the wolves completely wiped it out. Now they claim it was the cougars who did it. Lots of cougars up there forever, but the wolves arrive, the Caribou are decimated, and it's the cougar's fault. "They" also say that is was also the logging in British Columbia. But no, the wolves eating them had noting to do with it.

I think people are also kind of ignorant as to how fast wolf populations increase. And then it's a known fact that the game departments, under estimate the populations.

I'm pretty talented when it comes to metal work, and a pretty good mechanic, but my carpentry skills are very sad indeed. When it comes to nailing two boards together, I'm like a cat trying to poop on a hot tin roof.
 
A friend use to say
"Like a three legged cat trying to take a dump on a frozen pond"

Here in washington state the game department denies wolf packs for years even with trail cam proof.
A friend in granite falls had wolves on trail cams, the Millcreek game department said they were either coyotes or people house pets. So if thats the case they are fair game, Right.

So if these wolves migrated to new territory how come they are wearing washington state radio collars?
They just happen to of found them collars and put them on?

life doesn't go on like these idiots say, they only eat the OLD, the SICK and the YOUNG.
They kill anytjing they can catch up to and severe the preys tendons on it's back legs then once the animal goes down the start eating it alive.

One hell of a death for the deer, elk, caribou, buffalo, horse, cow, even pet dogs.
Nothing in the world will ever change my point of view on these wolves.
Death to each and every one of them, one at a time by what ever means it takes.
 
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My neighbor has a pasture right outside my window. I came home from work a few months ago and their horse was dead in their pasture. Turns out the owners down the road let their two german sheperds out to run and they loved to run horses. Tore the horses hamstrings up then ran it into the electric fence where it collapsed from exhaustion and was shocked the rest of the way to death
 
Domestic farm animals killed by predators are reimbursed to the owner by the State. Yes, you have a Chicken, Duck, Turkey, or Dog lost to a Wild Animal or even crop damage done by Deer is billable to the State. So how many times are claims made to the State true? About 10% a Game Warden told me.
 
All predators contribute to the death of the elk and deer.

The average pair of coyotes will kill 26 deer fawns a year to feed their pups.

Cougars average a deer a week.

A study in Pemnsylvania they wrote on their study black bears killed 50% of the deer fawns that they put radio collars on.

I just read a study in yellowstone in early winter each wolf will eat 1.4 elk a month, in late wimter it goes up to 2.2 elk per wolf a month.
Now times that by the number of wolves in the pack, say five to eight wolves the equates to a lot of elk devastated out of the herd.
 
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Terry G said:
Domestic farm animals killed by predators are reimbursed to the owner by the State. Yes, you have a Chicken, Duck, Turkey, or Dog lost to a Wild Animal or even crop damage done by Deer is billable to the State. So how many times are claims made to the State true? About 10% a Game Warden told me.
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Yeah, try actually doing it. That's why it's only 10%. Even if it was 100%, you can't eat money. Money doesn't birth or sire next year's calves.

State road mowers destroyed our $500 mailbox. We even had a witness. After two years of arguing back & forth, we gave up.

Sorry but it's stupid for all the hipsters in Denver to vote to re-introduce wolves when they're not the ones that have to live with them and make a living in their habitat. To intentionally add an apex predator where they haven't existed in years because some folks have a starry-eyed delusion about them is insane.

coloradosun.com

Ranchers hit Colorado Parks and Wildlife with $580,000 in compensation claims for livestock impacted by wolves

If approved, the claims would deplete the Wolf Depredation Compensation Fund and force the agency to dip into the state’s general fund
coloradosun.com coloradosun.com
 
Fine Figure of a Man said:
Guessing you don't own livestock.
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....not since I quit Milking cows back in the eighties. Doesn't mean I still can't identify with those that do. BTDT. Never said anything about wolves not attacking livestock. Wisconsin pays owners well for livestock and pets killed by wolves. Fair market value for livestock and up to $2500 each for pets. While I never had any livestock killed by wolves, I did have livestock killed by dogs running at large. I was compensated by the county for them. This monies came from dog licensing.

Fine Figure of a Man said:
You sound like someone that lives in Madison.
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....is that supposed to be some form of of derogatory comment? Personal attacks are not allowed here. I have many times commented that I live in West Central Wisconsin. If you know so much about Madison, you know that it is far from here.

No where in this thread have I said anything about not killing wolves legally. Here and many other times I have promoted the unlisting of wolves here as endangered in our state and reinstating a season on them. We have twice to three times as many wolves as the state proposes for a healthy environment, and they need to be hunted to keep them within those numbers and to keep their fear of humans. The listing does not come from Madison, but from Washington. The opposition of a season for them here does not come from Madison, it comes from Washington. The only thing I have spoken against in this thread is the Poaching or illegal shooting of them and any kind of endorsement of such. I do not agree with every game law/regulation the state has for hunting and fishing. But.....I do comply with them. As do other responsible Sportsmen. Poachers steal from all of us responsible law abiding hunters and fishers. They cheat for no other purpose than to boost their deranged ego. While some will claim folks poach in order to feed their starving family......this is not the case for the majority of poachers. They do it for the thrill of the kill. They do it because for the most part, they could not have the success from legal means. Many times it comes from the thrill that they got away with something law abiding hunters are afraid to do. Same goes for the boasting on social media platforms of poaching. They are low life's and have no place on "The High Road".
 
red rick said:
IMO a landowner should be able to kill any predator that he sees fit to on his property year round including domestic dogs and cats .
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How I wish that were true. Here in Wisconsin, any cat off the owners property is considered feral, and while not considered explicitly legal, it is also not explicitly prohibited to kill them. There are no laws making it specifically legal or no laws making it illegal. Killing feral cats though, may be considered animal cruelty and that is illegal. IOWs, you got a feral cat problem on your rural property, the state probably won't prosecute you. Live in town and shoot your neighbor's cat in your backyard, and odds are, someone with a badge will pay you a visit. As for "dogs running at large", legally you can only shoot the animal if you feel that you, your pets or your livestock are threatened by "serious bodily harm". This does not include the chasing of deer. At one time in the past, it did. Nowadays, you need to contact the county. As for other predators, it depends on how they are regulated. But......if they are attacking or actively preying on your livestock or pets, you can kill it regardless of how it is regulated. This goes for wolves too.
 
After someone set a pit bull on fire in the city of Richmond they passed a law recently making it a felony to intentionally kill a dog or cat in Virginia . You still can kill them if they are killing your livestock , or attacking your pet . I assume if they were threatening people also .

I was told by a game warden that a landowner can kill a predator on his property that he considers a nuisance , or something like that . I asked him about that when I was going to set some coyote traps on my property after fur season and what would happen if I caught a bobcat . He said that only the landowner could kill it and he also told me how to release it if I chose to . But that sounded to risky to me .
 
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