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Keeping Cool

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by Good Ol' Boy, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy member

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    There was another thread about not jumping into fights that aren't yours and this is along the same lines.

    I was at a LGS today that I frequent that has signs all over the entrance about not wearing hoodies and having your pants around your waste so that you're not having to constantly pull them up. I dont think I need to expand on why any retail store might, and do have these signs.

    While I'm at the gun counter browsing, in walks a young black fellow with his hoodie over his head and pants around his thighs. Right off the bat someone behind the counter tells him to remove the "hood" part of his hoodie. A couple minutes later another guy behind the counter ask's him to pull up his pants. At this point there are several patrons watching and this young man decides to throw a small fit talking about racism and how the store doesnt want any black people in there.

    As much as it would've been nice to grab this kid and show him the signs at the front of the store, explain to him why they were there and how there were at least 2-3 other black folks in there shopping without issue, nobody did. Certainly not me or any of the other armed folks working the store.

    The kid had his rant and left and some patrons and store folks had a chat after the fact.

    Point is, putting yourself in a situation which could escalate and then trying to claim SD is a no go. Its worthwhile to be able to let things slide off your shoulder and discuss after the fact. That's not to say dont be aware of your surroundings but just dont take flapping lips to heart too much.

    Your opinion, facts or the truth aren't always worth getting involved in a situation.
     
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  2. badkarmamib

    badkarmamib Member

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    While I agree that this was probably the safest, smartest option for all involved, it is a shame that the perceived danger couldn't be calmly explained, and possibly a more conscious firearms enthusiast be born, rather than an irate would-be customer storming out. Not that I necessarily think he would have listened reasonably, I just find it a shame. So, good on you for keeping cool, bad for him that he got offended so easily.
     
  3. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    What is dangerous about saggy pants? I can see the hoodie; you want to be able to see the patron's eyes and face. But the saggy pants? That just kind of seems like a "get off my lawn" thing.
     
  4. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    The store enforces a dress code. Big deal. It's their right. Perhaps they want to "screen" potential buyers of firearms by having them submit to a brief quiz on following requests.

    Anyone who pulls the race card over this isn't someone I'd want to do business with, and refusing to do so would be within my rights.

    I've been to bars that prohibit hats because of the fights certain uses of them can instigate. Funny, my cowboy hat is always welcomed. If one wants to look like a typical miscreant, one is likely to be looked at as one.

    The whole point of the OP, though, was to address the idea of a customer involving himself in a dispute between proprietor and (other) customer. Unless it came to fisticuffs, or worse, there should be no reason to do so. Uncooperative customers, even ones looking for trouble, are not new to them.
     
  5. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    I'd find a gun store with less drama.
     
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  6. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    My bank in NC didn't allow hats or hoods worn inside. My county in Fl actually has a law against sagging pants. And there is nothing wrong with a place of business to have a dress code out of a sense of decorum. Also, I'm white and own several hoodies. In fact, I am wearing one right now. And if I wore it into my old bank, I would be asked to remove it- just like the sign on the door says to.
     
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  7. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    It is your honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to fight. Proverbs 20:3

    I have only recently discovered the satisfaction of keeping my mouth closed. It's really difficult sometimes, but rewarding if you can do it.
     
  8. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy member

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    My assumption was that constantly grabbing at your pants in a gun store might make folks uneasy, stereotypes aside. Who's to say that persons not going to come up with a gun from those pants?
     
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  9. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    I suppose that could be. In any event I imagine a business owner can have any rules they like even if it seems weird. I was just curious.

    Apropos of nothing, I did see a surveillance video of one of those droopy-pansed fellas trying to run from a cop, tripping on those droopy pants and face planting! It was entertaining and entirely predictable!;)
     
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  10. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy member

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    They all have that around the Richmond area.

    Just a couple of weeks ago CSA, the main/major range in the area and where I have my weekly Monday IDPA matches had some random guy come in, grab a rifle off the wall and start looking for ammo.
     
  11. entropy

    entropy Member

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    The sagging pants thing is from the street culture penchant for wearing pants loose and sagging, plus small pocket autos and revolvers tend to pull unbelted pants down some. The irony about this fashion statement is it is used as a signal in prisons that a person is available for certain activities. The hoodie thing is, of course, they are worn up to minimize exposure to security cameras and make getting a description harder, plus it makes them 'look meaner'. When I see kids with hoodies up in the store while on my break, I follow them; sometimes it's interesting, and has led to a couple busts.

    I learned it long ago for in public, (my dad was a cop), but more recently with SWMBO. It only took 30 years with her......
     
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  12. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    That is an urban legend that, as far as my research indicates, was invented from whole cloth by a less than reputable cable news channel. According to sociologists and anthropologists it is inspired by prison garb, though. Belts and the like are generally not allowed as they can be used to fashion weapons, so pants tend to droop. The myth was probably fueled by homophobia and racism but is almost always uncritically accepted as fact by those that never looked into it any deeper. In fact the myth is widespread enough that Snopes actually did an entry debunking it.

    But I suppose the origins of that particular fad and the demographic that mostly embraces it explains why it's so widely disdained by very conservative places like gun shops.
     
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  13. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    Your research is flawed. Working in corrections I issued uniforms to thousands of inmates. Elastic waistband eliminates the need and danger of a belt. Inmates still "droop" their pants to show availability. Underwear is a comfort item where I worked, so easy access is really easy access.

    My local gun shops are more likely to have no smoking/no vaping signs. Haven't seen any about a dress code yet.
     
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  14. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    Yeah, they droop their pants. I'm not sure if you work in an unusually frisky prison but I don't think it means what you think it means (bases on a lot of prisons). In your prison do they all wear saggy pants or just the ones that are 'signalling availability'?

    I ask because my brother in law worked in the Penn for years and I worked with a guy that did four years behind the walls. Your statements don't square with theirs. Just curious.
     
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  15. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    Oh boy. A LGS who are the pants police. Says more about them being bothered by it than it does the dude with the saggy pants.

    When I was in my early 20s, I watched a fellow soldier and friend pummel two older than us/40-something rednecks in a bar in Tennessee who told him to pull up his pants, not speak to their women, and go drink elsewhere.

    Yeah, run your mouth at your own risk about someone’s sagging pants or other lifestyle choices.
     
  16. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    When you own a store, you get to make the rules for your store as long as they don't conflict with law. You can prohibit people with baggy pants, people not wearing shoes, people who carry guns, people who don't wear shirts, people wearing hoodies, you can even prohibit people from carrying large bags into the establishment.

    That is quite a different thing than approaching a stranger in a public place and telling them what to do.
     
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  17. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    Okie dokie.

    I was talking about a customer feeling the need to:

    Which is a terrible idea.
     
  18. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    "My second/third hand knowledge of an event doesn't agree with your first hand knowledge." How absurd. With that logic do you pretend to know what WWII was like over the people who were there because you saw a documentary? Because that is as equally a ridiculous observation as you have just made.
     
  19. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Mine was secondhand only in that my cousin, who spent time in prison (not as a guard) told me so.
     
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  20. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    Of the thousands of inmates I dealt with, only 2 admitted to having male on male sex inside. One was quite colorful about it "It isn't gay to rape another guy in jail, you are just asserting your dominance." Unfortunately we could not charge him under PREA as no one would admit to it. Problem was we knew it happened. The inmate tested positive for Hepatitis C, and so did all his cell mates eventually. The other inmate admitted to it was gay. He traded sex for food, protection, and employment when he got out. He got stuff and got laid, big win in his book.
     
  21. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    1) Management gets first right of refusal on customers. It's the owner's lawn.
    2) People who go to the trouble of dressing to resemble a saggy gangsta are emulating the look at least, if not the criminal behavior. If you don't want to be treated like a saggy gangsta, don't dress like one.
     
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  22. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    Years ago, there used to be laws on the books about "indecent exposure".
     
  23. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed. In fact, that was the main point of the OPs post.
     
  24. shafter

    shafter Member

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    I find it strange that people are ok with the "your store, your rules" when it comes to sagging pants, and yet, when the sign says "no firearms", they're quick to point out that unless it violates state law they're going to disregard the sign.
     
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  25. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    And if you carry your gun into a store where a sign says you can’t, they can ask you to go put your gun in you vehicle of just leave the store. If you refuse, they can call the police and have you arrested, in most states.
    If you see a sign that says no guns allowed, it’s up to you if you do business there.
    Pretty much, just don’t be stupid. Don’t get involved in something you don’t need to be in, but always be ready to defend yourself.
     
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