Keeping your cool

[Armored farmer]

I want to post a couple of examples of intense situations that actually have happened to my immediate family. I just wanted to share these experiences to impress that one must maintain responsible gun safety even when under a great deal of stress.

When my father was in his mid forties he awoke in our home to the smell of cigarettes and footsteps in the kitchen. He grabbed his bedside S&W mod 36 and investigated. When he rounded the corner of the hallway, the sights on his revolver settled on the chest of his best friend's daughter. She was on drugs and had let herself into our Rural home. All turned out fine, but we cringe at the thought of what could have happened.

Another instance was when my father-in-law heard voices in his home based business. He grabbed a shotgun and investigated the voices. As he searched his showroom, a naked young woman broke through the ceiling. He admitted that it was a miracle that he didn't fire the gun when the ceiling came down. The young woman had been drugged and raped in an attic storage room with outside access. The young men that were responsible went to prison for a long time.

I read much about training to shoot an intruder, but little about training to keep your cool.

Can anyone relate?

 

[patmccoy]

I believe it goes back to mental set, including target identification and threat evaluation. You should not shoot unless you have determined you are in danger of death or severe injury from the assailant.

 

[herrwalther]

When my father was in his mid forties he awoke in our home to the smell of cigarettes and footsteps in the kitchen. He grabbed his bedside S&W mod 36 and investigated. When he rounded the corner of the hallway, the sights on his revolver settled on the chest of his best friend's daughter. She was on drugs and had let herself into our Rural home. All turned out fine, but we cringe at the thought of what could have happened.

Very similar story for me. After deploying I lived with my parents for a little while until I found my own place to live. I heard someone trying to move quietly through the house one night. I grabbed a little 380 that I kept loaded and carried in an ankle holster to go after the noise. I rounded the corner with the pistol raised and stopped with the barrel less than 2 feet from my older brother's chest. He was supposed to be spending the night at a friend's house but came home early for some reason. We are both happy I was taught proper trigger discipline. His dry joke was he probably should have texted first to let me know he was coming back through the door.

 

[Jeff White]

I heard someone trying to move quietly through the house one night. I grabbed a little 380 that I kept loaded and carried in an ankle holster to go after the noise. I rounded the corner with the pistol raised and stopped with the barrel less than 2 feet from my older brother's chest. He was supposed to be spending the night at a friend's house but came home early for some reason.

When my youngest son was the only one still at home (senior in high school) I heard the door open and footsteps about 2am. My son was camping at the nearby state park with a couple friends so no one should had been coming in late.

I grabbed my duty pistol and a light and investigated. Poking my head out the bedroom door I lit up his friend John with my Surefire.

I advanced down the hall and asked the boys why they weren't still in the woods and it turned out a thunderstorm had rolled through and they didn't have their gear packed well and everything was soaked. They were going to finish the camp out in the family room in the basement.

None of the boys saw the 1911 in my hand as I put it behind my thigh like I sometimes did on a traffic stop where things were very suspicious.

 

[theblakester]

(I live solo in an apt. Front and patio door are in the main living room)
Bout 6 months ago woke up to my dog barking at the patio door at 3am and heard a mans voice on my patio and the sliding glass door shaking. Scared the hell out of me as I quickly shook myself awake. I grabbed my 12ga from under the bed and debated coming out of the room. Then I heard what sounded like the person(s) leaving. I switched to a pistol and went around the front door phone in hand. As I opened the door I barely caught the last of a guy running down the hallway and into the parking lot where his friend was in his car yelling at him. Turned out be a drunk neighbors friend trying to get in the wrong apartment. I think the guy in the car lives in my complex and they were gay dating and got in an argument in the car in the parking lot coming home from a bar and the non resident got out of the car trying to go inside but came to my place. Once I stepped outside he drunkenly repeated telling me to go back inside and that everything was fine. I asked if they were ok and politely reminded them to beee ccaarreefulll.. he was like ya, ya, sorry. Smh.
Talk about an adrenaline rush for about 30 seconds I thought I was having my apt broken into.

 

[jaytex1969]

I've done some delivery work recently and I can attest that one need not be drunk or high to get the wrong apartment. After a 10 hour day, they all look the same.

One time in Baltimore (where I was raised), I had bicycled to meet a date at a local pub. At closing time, I walked her to her car. I was straddling my bike and small talking with her.

Suddenly 3 cop cars screamed in on me from 3 directions and fellows jumped out with weapons drawn. They managed to not ventilate me before assessing the situation.

One fellow said, "Uh, sorry." and explained that someone had reported "man on bike breaking into car".

I'm sure glad THEY exercised good discipline.

 

[badkarmamib]

When I was working nights, I came home at 4:30AM. My wife had been working on a project in the living room, and had left a card table near the door. The door hit the table and bounced. Without thinking, I slammed the door into the table, threw my lunchbox onto the floor, and stormed to the bedroom to give her a piece of my mind (like I could spare it). I opened the door to be staring down the barrel of her .32. Finger off the trigger, light on, waiting for target identification. I never knew it was possible to be so scared and so proud at the same time...

 

[Torian]

One thing my platoon was told overseas is that "you have to work twice as hard NOT to pull the trigger when you want to". Trying to control that adrenaline rush can be very challenging, even for those considered experts in such situations.

 

[boatdoc173]

Very similar story for me. After deploying I lived with my parents for a little while until I found my own place to live. I heard someone trying to move quietly through the house one night. I grabbed a little 380 that I kept loaded and carried in an ankle holster to go after the noise. I rounded the corner with the pistol raised and stopped with the barrel less than 2 feet from my older brother's chest. He was supposed to be spending the night at a friend's house but came home early for some reason. We are both happy I was taught proper trigger discipline. His dry joke was he probably should have texted first to let me know he was coming back through the door.

thanks for your service. glad to see our military still teaches gun handling the right way

 

[Kleanbore]

When my father was in his mid forties he awoke in our home to the smell of cigarettes and footsteps in the kitchen. He grabbed his bedside S&W mod 36 and investigated. When he rounded the corner of the hallway, the sights on his revolver settled on the chest of his best friend's daughter. She was on drugs and had let herself into our Rural home. All turned out fine, but we cringe at the thought of what could have happened.

Another instance was when my father-in-law heard voices in his home based business. He grabbed a shotgun and investigated the voices. As he searched his showroom, a naked young woman broke through the ceiling. He admitted that it was a miracle that he didn't fire the gun when the ceiling came down.

I read much about training to shoot an intruder, but little about training to keep your cool.

Can anyone relate?

The need to "keep one's cool" is a given.

Regarding incidents similar to these, trainers have emphasized for a long time the inadvisability of going to investigate a noise in the house or outside.

 

[Armored farmer]

Regarding incidents similar to these, trainers have emphasized for a long time the inadvisability of going to investigate a noise in the house or outside.

Nothing will keep a man from investigating a situation when kids or grandkids are present in another room.

...and when police show up and find a half-dressed man walking around carrying a gun, you hope they keep their cool as well.

 

[bearcreek]

The need to "keep one's cool" is a given.

Regarding incidents similar to these, trainers have emphasized for a long time the inadvisability of going to investigate a noise in the house or outside.

You're suggesting what as an alternative? You'll perhaps notice that all of the stories so far in this thread have been instances where shooting was not warranted. Are folks supposed to call the cops every time they hear an unexpected noise in their house, even though most of the time it's likely not made by someone with nefarious intent? I can tell you with absolute certainty that the police would get real tired of that real fast in my area, what with all the raccoons, mice, opossums, squirrels, my dog, friends, expanding and contracting building materials, creaking trees, ice sliding off the roof, etc. etc. that are a normal part of life out here. Combine all that with a police response time that can stretch out to 45 min or more and it'd get to be an incredible PITA and waste of resources for everyone involved.

 

[MistWolf]

When I was still living with my folks, I friend had come over to look me up. It was during the day and my father was asleep because he worked the midnight shift. My friend quietly let himself in, not wanting to wake my father and when I wasn't home, decided to wait. He was in the living room looking out the large window to the patio and nearly jumped out of his skin when he heard a voice behind him say "Damn. I never get to shoot anyone."

He turned to see my father standing in his briefs and a tee shirt on the staircase holding a small S&W 38 revolver in his hand.

When I saw my friend, he told me "I will never again go into your house without knocking. Loudly! I didn't even hear your dad come down the stairs."

Dad later told me the house was dark and all he could see was a large, hulking silhouette of someone standing by the large window. He said he had the front sight on my friend's back and was about to issue a verbal challenge when he realized who it was

 

[oldrevolverguy]

Years ago I was awoken in the middle of the night by a horrible series of screams coming from my neighbors apartment across the hall. I grabbed my S&W 19 357 and headed for the door. As I reached the door the action moved to the hall right in front of my door. I was watching the whole thing through the peep hole. The male occupant (husband) was holding his newborn child above his head threatening to throw the child to the concrete ground. While the mother screamed and begged for him to not harm their baby, I was debating if I should intervene in the situation. My options were all bad. It was simply not possible to unlock the deadbolt and chain and open the door before he could kill the baby. If I managed to get the door open it would be simple for the husband to place the baby between me and him. While my mental debate was taking place the confrontation seemed to be coming to a head. I decided that the best I could do was be a good witness and if necessary engage is further violence was threatened. Then came a voice (the mother in law) whom I could not see. It seems the husband was supposed to be working the night shift and caught the wife and mother in law moving the wife and child out of the apartment. The mother in law, cold as ice says, "if you harm that baby I will see you in prison for the rest of your life, I promise." The husband responded by handing the baby to the wife and walking back into the apartment. Confrontation over.

Sometimes the best self defense shooting is the one that was avoided. Restraint and judgement are critical.

 

[Shaq]

Unfortunately, I've learned about trigger discipline on several occasions. Here's one:
My wife & I bought a house in a quiet neighborhood (or so we thought). You can't ring every neighbor's doorbell & ask how they earn their living. At around 4:00am, one night we awoke from a sound sleep to hear glass shattering, yelling & a helicopter. A drug raid next door. We found out the 18-year-old son & his sister were arrested & the sister's 1-year-old girl was put in foster care. The father came from an out-of-town trip & when he went to the police station to bail his son & daughter out, he was arrested too.
Well, a few weeks later, everyone is back home. I went out to get my mail & the son is standing there staring at me.
I said, "Hi." He says, "One day you're going to walk outside & die."
I said, "What's your problem?"
He says, "Things were fine until you moved in."
I realized he was blaming me for setting him up for the drug raid. I said, "If you think I had something to do with you getting busted, you're not only wrong, you're stupid....I don't know what you do & I don't care." He said, "You'll see what happens to you." He later flattened the tires on my car & started harassing my wife - following her when she left the house. (my wife always had a S&W Mod. 60 in her car)

Fast forward a month later, I'm in my garage & he suddenly shows up at my garage door. I immediately drew a gun & pointed it at his chest & he started yelling, "No...No...No....Please....don't....I found out who got us busted & it wasn't you." I said, "First you threaten to kill me, then you show up on my property. I doubt you'll see your next birthday." Then his dad shows up. I kept the gun on both of them & said, "I strongly suggest you both go home & wait for police."
I called police & made a report. They talked to him & his dad. I heard the cop say, "You're really lucky...he could have killed you & he wouldn't have been charged with anything."

 

[scaatylobo]

FAR too many incidents to list in my almost 70 years on this planet.
BOTH as a civilian ,then a cop,then back to civilian.
All that I can say that saved me from ventilating a situation that was a non shoot one = booger finger off the trigger.
AND memorizing the law and EXACTLY WHEN it would be justified to deploy DPF.

 

[Elkins45]

Finger off the trigger saves innocent lives. That whole body jerk some people do when startled all too often extends to the trigger finger with catastrophic results.

I have a suspicion that DA vs SA or striker fired does too, but that may just be an irrational bias on my behalf. Still, it works for me. I want my carry guns to have a long, deliberate first shot.

 

[GBExpat]

For the first couple of years in the mid-70s when I lived in VaBeach, I was in a small 2nd floor one bedroom apartment. The main door opened opposite the kitchenette ... to the left was the living room, to the right, a short hallway with the bathroom off of the left and the bedroom door at the end, about 15' away.

I warned the apartment management to NOT allow unannounced workers to access my place during the day with a master key because I worked nights and was sleeping during the day.

I always inverted my K98k under the doorknob for some extra security & warning.

One midday while sleeping, I heard a loud noise that my brain told me was the K98k hitting the deck. I automatically grabbed my Colt Combat Commander .45 from the top of my headboard while rolling out of bed to the right and instantly assuming shooting position with the gun aim at the center of the interlopers chest (cocked & locked with trigger finger indexed, btw).

Turned out to be a Phone Company Guy who was doing some routine maintenance. He was stepping slowly over & looking at the rifle on the floor while muttering something (like WT_?, probably) ... and then movement caught his eye and he looked up to see a naked guy pointing a big handgun at him.

He paused very briefly, dropped his case and rapidly exited the apartment ... I think that he may have gotten to the car park before his bag hit the floor.

I threw on some clothes, collected him, and apologized, explaining that the apartment management should have warned him off of this one.

 

[MedWheeler]

I was still living at home with my mother and two brothers when I started in law enforcement. One of my brothers was a dope fiend and abuser, and was hardly ever there; he only "lived there" as an address to put on his arrest records which, fortunately, were always filled out well outside my agency's jurisdiction. At this time, he hadn't been seen in weeks.

I came home one night after a 3-11 shift that ran well past that. The house was naturally dark inside. I wasn't home a few minutes when I saw a shadow skulking about in the back yard, near the rear sliding door, but not coming quite up to it. I was still in uniform, but had already doffed my gun belt (and sidearm) in my bedroom closet, so I grabbed a 20-gauge shotgun and quietly slipped out the side door. As I approached, bringing the gun to bear, I recognized my brother and alerted him to my presence by calling his name. He was, of course, high and had come home, having "lost" whatever his usual place-of-crashing had been at that time, but didn't have any keys to the house with him

 

[Kleanbore]

You're suggesting what as an alternative[to heading out to investigate a noise]?

You'll perhaps notice that all of the stories so far in this thread have been instances where shooting was not warranted.

Not doing so

Are folks supposed to call the cops every time they hear an unexpected noise in their house, even though most of the time it's likely not made by someone with nefarious intent?

No. Why would one do that?

I can tell you with absolute certainty that the police would get real tired of that real fast in my area, what with all the raccoons, mice, opossums, squirrels, my dog, friends, expanding and contracting building materials, creaking trees, ice sliding off the roof, etc. etc. that are a normal part of life out here.

And rightly so.

Combine all that with a police response time that can stretch out to 45 min or more and it'd get to be an incredible PITA and waste of resources for everyone involved.

Should it turn out that the noise was made by someone with "nefarious intent" and you stumble upon one or more of them and into an ambush, the "PITA" and waste of resources will be much greater.

Let the threat come to you.


Y

 

[bearcreek]

Let the threat come to you.

You said this:

Regarding incidents similar to these, trainers have emphasized for a long time the inadvisability of going to investigate a noise in the house or outside.

This statement seems to be suggesting that it is inadvisable to go investigate a noise inside or outside the house. Is that not what you meant? The vast majority of the time for the vast majority of folks any noise that you hear is very unlikely to be a bad guy. I hear noises both inside and outside the house at night regularly. I normally go to see what made them. Several times it was raccoons getting into the chickens, several times it was mice knocking something off a shelf in the basement, several times it was the dog having a dream, etc. etc. In all of those cases so far it would have been ridiculous and counterproductive for me to barricade myself and "let the threat come to me". If you know it's an actual threat then that may be the best option, but just defaulting to that any time there is an unidentified noise would be nuts.

 

[Kleanbore]

This statement seems to be suggesting that it is inadvisable to go investigate a noise inside or outside the house. Is that not what you meant?

Yes indeed. The issue has been discussed at length here in the past.

The hunter invariably loses.

The vast majority of the time for the vast majority of folks any noise that you hear is very unlikely to be a bad guy.

Of course. BUT: when it is, you do not want to encounter him, or them.

I hear noises both inside and outside the house at night regularly.

We all do.

I normally go to see what made them.

Whey?

It is more prudent to try to determine what might have made them--gate blowing in the wind, ice maker, screen door blown open, raccoon on the roof--and eliminating more serous possibilities than it is to take a chance on walking into a trap.

Several times it was raccoons getting into the chickens, several times it was mice knocking something off a shelf in the basement, several times it was the dog having a dream, etc. etc. In all of those cases so far it would have been ridiculous and counterproductive for me to barricade myself and "let the threat come to me".

Why would it be counterproductive to stay where you are and not go looking?

If you know it's an actual threat then that may be the best option,...

It certainly is.

...but just defaulting to that any time there is an unidentified noise would be nuts.

I think you have missed the point. You listen, you assess, you decide. If there is a reason--a good reason--to go looking, just understand the risk.

Now, if there are loved ones in the house, and there seems to be something really amiss, you have no choice but to see to their safety.






.

 

[Kleanbore]

Frank Ettin posted this here over six years ago:

"...whatever you decide to do, if there is an intruder who is willing to engage you, and you go looking for him, he will have a tremendous tactical advantage. That is a basic fact of life.

"Of course, if he's coming through your kid's window, or if there are members of the household unaccounted for, you need to go and deal with that.

"You're going to need to decide if you think the "bump in the night" is an intruder or something benign. You'll have to decide if any members of the household not with you may be in immediate risk. And you'll need to decide how to handle it.

"But it's still a basic fact that if there is an intruder who is willing to engage you, and you go looking for him, he will have a tremendous tactical advantage. You should keep that in mind when you're deciding how to handle things.
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-03-21/...cers-third-officer-second-officer?_s=PM:CRIME.

"Anyone who has had decent training and/or has had experience going looking for a bad guy will tell you (1) it is properly a group activity; (2) the guy you're hunting has a great tactical advantage; and (3) it's not something anyone who knows what he is doing wants to do, nor will he do it unless he absolutely must (e. g., to find and protect unaccounted for, known innocents)."
​

That addresses on risk: that of being ambushed and shot or stabbed.. The other big one is that of shooting an innocent.

And there's another --the risk of being shot by a first responder or neighbor who has entered your house in hot pursuit of an armed criminal. That happened in Boulder, CO some years ago. Unlikely, but there is a very good way to prevent it.

 

[bearcreek]

The hunter invariably loses.

The hunter sometimes loses, not invariably.

It is more prudent to try to determine what might have made them--gate blowing in the wind, ice maker, screen door blown open, raccoon on the roof--and eliminating more serous possibilities than it is to take a chance on walking into a trap.

Ok, now I'm confused. How are you supposed to "try to determine what might have made the noise" without going to look? You can sit in your room and listen I suppose.

Why would it be counterproductive to stay where you are and not go looking?

Well, I could lose a whole flock of chickens to the coons rather than just one or two. My three year old could get up to use the bathroom in the morning and step on the glass from the jar the mice knocked off the shelf that night. My wife and six month and three year old could stay cowered on the bed in my room with me and lose a bunch of sleep while waiting for the "threat" which turned out to be ice sliding off the roof or a piece of wood falling off the stack of firewood in the basement. Those'd all be counterproductive.

You listen, you assess, you decide. If there is a reason--a good reason--to go looking, just understand the risk.
Now, if there are loved ones in the house, and there seems to be something really amiss, you have no choice but to see to their safety.

This part I'm entirely in agreement with.

 

[Kleanbore]

The hunter sometimes loses, not invariably.

From Frank Ettin in 2010:

"Massad Ayoob tells a story about the National Tactical Invitational, an annual competition in which some 130 of the top shooters and firearm trainers participate by invitation only. One of the events is a force-on-force exercise using simunitions in which the competitor must clear a house against a single "BG." According to Mas during the first six years of the NTI, one, and only one, competitor got through one of those six NTIs without being judged killed, and he was head of NASA security firearms training at the time. And one, and only one, made it through the seventh year. The tactical advantage of the ensconced adversary is just too great. And remember, these competitors were highly skilled, highly trained fighters."​

Ok, now I'm confused. How are you supposed to "try to determine what might have made the noise" without going to look? You can sit in your room and listen I suppose.

Or remain wherever you happen to be sitting or standing, or listen while you continue to go about your business in a safe place. But yes, that's a whole lot wiser than going to look before you have a reasonable level of confidence that you won't be stumbling into an ambush.

Well, I could lose a whole flock of chickens to the coons rather than just one or two.

All of the chickens would not come close to a miniscule fraction of the cost of being victimized by violent criminal actors, even if you are unscathed.

Several years ago, an airline mechanic in Texas heard a noise that sounded as if someone were meddling with his trailer. He asked his visitor to call 911, and he took his shotgun outside to investigate.

There was a man outside with a knife. The resident was stabbed and shot with his own gun.

He survived, but he lost and arm and his livelihood.

Keep in mind that when you leave your house, (1) you have no idea how many people might be out there, (2) you have no idea where all of them are, (3) they know from where you will be coming, and (4) you can bet that someone will be watching for you.

I should think that one could distinguish between the sound of a disturbance caused by raccoons in the chicken house and sounds indicating the presence of potentially dangerous prowlers.

But if one is not so gifted, a wireless security camera will cost very little and give all the information one needs to eliminate the uncertainty--without risk, in real time.

My three year old could get up to use the bathroom in the morning and step on the glass from the jar the mice knocked off the shelf that night.

You don't think that you would quickly conclude from the sound that it did not indicate a danger of violence?

My wife and six month and three year old could stay cowered on the bed in my room with me and lose a bunch of sleep while waiting for the "threat" which turned out to be ice sliding off the roof or a piece of wood falling off the stack of firewood in the basement. Those'd all be counterproductive.

Why would anyone with a grain of sense "cower" anywhere after hearing such a sound?

One of our trashcans blew over in the wind the other night. We listened. The sound did not recur. We saw no need to go out and see what had happened before morning. We did not "cower" anywhere.