Kel Tec 380 improved???

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Double Naught Spy:
I don't know why so many people want to knock the P-3AT.
Is it because it's inexpensive?
Is it because it isn't particularly good looking?
Well, after firing thousands of rounds through mine I can tell you first hand that it is without a doubt IMO, considering weight and size, it is the best designed really small and light true pocket pistol available.

When you look at the problems posted at the KTOG NG (and what a great NG it is) you have to take into consideration how few complaints there are compared to the volume (35,000 in 7 months) of P-3ATs sold!

35,000 produced in the first 7 months! There must be something about this pistol!

If you read the posts at KTOG, notice that a lot of the posters have purchased a second and third P-3AT. Does that sound like it's a bad pistol?

Sure there were some problems! What pistol doesn't have problems? But if you take into account that there were 35,000 P-3ATs sold in just the first 7 months of production, the complaints are really negligable.

There were probably more P-3ATs sold in the first month of production than Autuagua sold in their entire lifetime of production.

I have never fired an Autuagua and am not knocking it, but I do know it is a blowback design and that alone in my opinion makes it less desirable.

You mentioned the great customer service of KelTec. And what kind of customer service will you have for the Autaugua?
 
Kel-Tec sent me a gun for evaluation. I'm sending it back tomorrow as I am done with the evaluation.
It is a gun that I want to like.
Unfortunately I had a number of failures to extract. This was with Blazer and Winchester White Box fodder and with Winchester Silver Tips and with every other round I had on hand.
The fired round would come back a bit and the extractor would jump off the rim causing a nasty jam. The reason for this was that the fired case would hit the next round and where the fresh round's case mouth was, there is a tiny lip... the fired case would snag that lip.
I have a photo of it that shows it clearly... but its huge... I'll email it if you need it.
I also had a couple failures to feed as well.

I can not give the P3AT my recomendation.
However, I can give it a conditional recomendation. These guns CAN be made reliable but it takes effort on the part of the shooter and some faith in the Kel-Tec company.
The gun is so light, small, thin, and just plain brilliantly designed, these little guns warant the effort to make them reliable. If done so and the gun is proven reliable with all loads to be carried - then this gun gets two thumbs up. Outstanding potential as a CCW gun.

It is also accurate. Minute of Liberal* at 7 paces.
I discovered that I was out of targets just as I was heading out to my range, so I improvised. Enjoy the photo.
matchwidowsmall.JPG

(*No Garofalos were harmed in the making of this image.)
 
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You're wasting bandwidth kolapelli. There's no convincing the Kel-Tec haters. They lurk around just waiting to bash them. BTW, I have 2 Autaugas, fine little pistol. I prefer my KT's though - 1 P-11, 2 P-32s and 1 P-3AT. Will get another P-3AT before long.
 
While I've only fired a P3AT once (function fired 35 rounds), I can say that my P32 has been an aboslute dream and I've had zero problems with it. Not sure, most range sessions consist of me emptying what I carry in it (Silvertips) and then firing a box or two of European Ball 32 ammo for practice. I do this often and the gun is like an extension of my hand.
 
Alamo: you have it exactly right!

George Hill: KelTec recommends not using blazer ammo!
The only ammo I have had any problems with in either of my P-3ATs is Wolff and Dynamit Noble, all of the American ammo, S&B and Santa Barbra ammo I have used peformed flawlessly. Of course I have not tryed every brand.

How many rounds did you shoot and did you clean the pistol?

I have found that the P-3AT will get sensitive to dirt after around 50 rounds.

I don't consider this a problem in a self defense siduation.

Also due to the very light weight of the pistol, limp wristing can cause what you experianced.
 
Dynamit Noble
Click to expand...

Amazing how different the two platforms can be. My P32 loves Dynamit Nobel. I've put upwards of 600rnds of the stuff through my P32.

BTW, fwiw, I've gone as long as 250rnds without any problems. Accuracy falloff was the only result.

Chris
 
I appreciate the warning, but I'm still going to get a hardchromed one if I ever see one. (I know about the slide exchange, but I'm not interested, I did it on my P32 SN 12xxx when I had the trigger axis fixed.)

Why am I going to chance it? I dunno, because it might work out of the box is the best answer I have. Heck, my pocket knife cost more than a new
P-3AT and I've certainly gotten my money's worth out of the P-32.

John
 
Over 400 rounds, and no problems with mine. Had doubts about the gun when I first got it, but it has proven me wrong so far.
 
I ordered one!

Well, I found a great deal that just slapped me in the face. I got the gun, another mag (2 total), and shipping all for only $235. Then with the transfer fees it will bring it to about $265. That was through the web, and around here the best deal I could fine was $295 for just the gun. So if I had got it around here, it would have been about $340 by the time you figure in tax, extra mag, paperwork, etc. The gun is a serial # H9N**, and I even called KT and they said that was just about the newest one.

I plan on sending it to Jack Fuselier in TX to have him do the complete F&B work over, plus he nickel plates the slide, and one mag all for $60 + $15 for shipping. Everyone said he does good work, and I've seen the hard chrome job KT has done and it just looked OK (I really disliked the red/pink dots on the sights).

I hope it proves to be reliable, if it does it will probably replace my Seecamp, and I'll prob ending selling that (only if KT is reliable). We'll see though, wish me luck:D :D :D
 
If this guy knows his stuff and really does a good job... it should work out just fine for you. Sweet price too.
I am going to be keeping my eye out for used P3AT myself. I can't think of a better pistol for an ankle rig. So light and thin... and only a hair bigger than the P32.
If I get one, I'm putting this on it:
http://www.psenhancements.com/
That would help if I have to shoot across the street with it.
 
Jack doesn't put anything on the sights so you can get some sight paint (or model paint) and make them whatever color you want.

Great price you got. I saw one today for $205.
 
Bob79, I'm sure you are going to be very happy with your choice.

I have not used Jack Fuselier, but many at the KTOG NG have and they all rave about his work.

I have two P-3ATs and like them so much, I'm thinking about getting a third.

duel_keltec.jpg
 
Ha! Ha! No George, I only have two hands, but some times I wish I had three!

I want to get a third P-3AT to try some modifications on.

Right now one is my always gun and it only gets shot about once a month. The other one is my practice gun and goes to the range once a week. I have been shooting a lot of Santa Barbra ammo through the second one and as you know that brand is pretty hot! I am not sure just how long the P-3AT will hold up to shooting large quantities of the "Hot" Santa Barbra ammo!

The frame does show battering from the Santa Barbra ammo, but it seems to have not gotten any worse over the last 100 rounds.
 
"Right now one is my always gun and it only gets shot about once a month. The other one is my practice gun and goes to the range once a week."


Id make sure I rotated the guns between duties.
 
Kel Tec P-3AT

Every day you guys should be thankful that you don't live in the People's Republic of California where gunshops cannot even legally sell P-3AT's, or any Kel Tec for that matter. I feel SO much safer.

How soon before they outlaw martial arts?

Bruise
 
"Id make sure I rotated the guns between duties."

I hesitate to use the practice gun for carry now because it will soon have 3,000 rounds through it.
I'm not sure how many rounds these little guns can handle and still be reliable.
 
Bruise, I used to live in California! Left there 1992 and moved to a state that honors individual rights.
 
People's Republic of California

I had a buddy who owned the Liberty Gunshop in Van Nuys. Because Van Nuys is in the City of Los Angeles where they card, thumbprint, and make you sign for ammo(!), he relocated his shop to Burbank. But, Burbank is still in the State of California, so like Kokapelli he relocated to Arizona.

If you like restrictive gun laws, high taxes, traffic jams, crime, insane housing prices, and earthquakes, then move to California. It's a shame, since except for earthquakes, all of California's problems are man made. The place really could be paradise if people hadn't screwed it up so bad.

Oh, I forgot to add our cars have less horsepower and cost more thanks to our special California only smog crap.

Bruise
 
P11
P32
P40
P357S
P3AT

Never had a problem yet with a Kel-Tec that was not my fault:
1) With hot rod loads and failed case head, I have blown the extractor, mag bottom plate, etc out of a P11.
2) With hot rod loads I have sheered off the ejector in a P32 from recoil.

But so far I have not wrecked a P3AT, and I have been trying.
 
My p3at is buffed to a purr (1500 grit autobody sandpaper kicks ass). Just got my Miltech-1 lub today, going to give it a wipe down and take her for a ride. Only done a 100 rounds bore break in thus far but no problems (even limpwristing like a frenchmen).
Seems to me Kel-tecs would fails due to one or more of the following:

1.) No fluff and buff. While its not required trying this gun out of the box is like firing blazers through a Glock. If you buy a gun do deligence in treating it right.

2.) Not cleaning. I've actually heard people say " I shouldnt have to clean my bore every 100 rounds". Gunk in the gun will make anything fail.

3.) Bad ammo/hollowpoints. Seems like feeding is a big issue. If your willing to stick to FMJ or other rounded nose ammo (powerballs, EFMJ, RBCD, etc) you should be good.

4.) Assumption of performanence based on limited usage. As we all know a gun will change slightly once its broke in good. Give her a chance, buy a 1k tub of Wolf for burn in.

These are just my opinions, based mostly on what I've read from others. I just hate to see a good gun get a bad wrap from user error. Definately not a pistol for right out of the box shooting.
 
4.) Assumption of performanence based on limited usage. As we all know a gun will change slightly once its broke in good. Give her a chance, buy a 1k tub of Wolf for burn in.
Click to expand...

My P3AT is jam-o-matic with Wolf, or any other steel cased ammo. Blazer aluminum or every brass cased ammo I've tried has been fine. FMJ, JHP, TC, SJSP, and cast lead RN have all fed and functioned 100% as long as the case wasn't steel.

My wife's Beretta 85 love Wolf and it doesn't even have an extractor!

The P3AT pushes the envelope of size, weight and power, if you get a good one they are great, if not give Kel-Tec a chance to make it right. This kind of of out of the box crap shoot is only tolerable because of the unique size/weight/power attributes of the P3AT.

--wally.
 
Bad Luck

I talked to another guy at work and he said he had bought at P-3AT last week and it broke after 20 rounds. He said when he took it apart it looked like the spring or lever that works the trigger. He brought it back to the local shop where he bought it and then shipped it out, telling him it would be 6-8 weeks!

I told him he should have called KT himself, told them what happened, shipped it himself w/ including a receipt for the cost of shipping. O-well, I asked him what serial # it was but he couldn't remember, but said he though it may have begun w/ a number. I told him to keep me posted though about what happens. Hopefully I'll have better luck.
 
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