Kel Tec getting back to its roots

There is nobody in the market where Davis used to be with double barrel derringers. Seems just odd enough to be a Keltec thing. I would consider one in the right flavor… and that flavor seems to be 32 H&R mag.
 
How about .327 mag?

Too big and heavy. The bond guns are thick. The Davis guns were thin. Scary thin in 38spl. I would guess that the barrels on the Davis were maybe 1/2” and the frame maybe 3/4” at its widest. I also can’t imagine shooting a 327fm with a 1.5” barrel. The pressure at exit would be ridiculous. All bark and not much bite in that short of a tube.
 
Too big and heavy. The bond guns are thick. The Davis guns were thin. Scary thin in 38spl. I would guess that the barrels on the Davis were maybe 1/2” and the frame maybe 3/4” at its widest. I also can’t imagine shooting a 327fm with a 1.5” barrel. The pressure at exit would be ridiculous. All bark and not much bite in that short of a tube.

I haven't handled a Honey B, so can't comment to it. I do have a Grizzly, and it is a bit thick, but I wouldn't want that one any slimmer or lighter shooting .410 shells.

As for short barrels and high pressure rounds, I don't have any .327 experience, but do own a 360 P.D. .357 mag still has plenty of punch from a 1-7/8 barrel. Yeah, the velocity loss from super short barrels is substantial, but the rounds still put down a lot more power than their shorter, lower pressure counterparts from any barrel length.
 
Too big and heavy. The bond guns are thick. The Davis guns were thin. Scary thin in 38spl. I would guess that the barrels on the Davis were maybe 1/2” and the frame maybe 3/4” at its widest. I also can’t imagine shooting a 327fm with a 1.5” barrel. The pressure at exit would be ridiculous. All bark and not much bite in that short of a tube.
The Honey B and Stinger are slimmer derringers than typical Bonds as they are built for .38/9mm as a maximum caliber.

I have interest in the .327 barrel, but only to use with wadcutters as I don't think hollow points would expand with .327 or .32 Mag.
 
i own a SUB P-2000 9mm that uses Glock 19 mags , great light weight carbine
P-32 great pistol (23 years old)
P-17 .. great pistol
As others mentioned.. they innovatie , others copy..( when they catch up )
 
My P3AT always worked fine.

Was the 9mm called the P11 or something? I had one of those and it was reliable, but the trigger was terrible.

My P32 works fine. It might be a carry piece for me as I get older.

KT is okay if you understand that you're buying a $200-$300 firearm.
 
The P30 (Gendel) predated the Five-seveN by 8 years. The 1994 AWB killed it. The PMR30 is the redesigned and much improved post-ban version of the original pistol.

The P30 used a fluted chamber like an HK roller gun, while the PMR has a semi-blowback hybrid system which employs case friction against the chamber walls to behave sort of like a short recoil gun. The PMR30 magazine is also a major improvement over the original P30.

The PMR is a lot of fun, but unfortunately unable to be suppressed due to the hybrid blowback system, beating itself up badly even with suppressors that weigh just 2 ounces.
Thanks for the correction.
 
KelTec guns are not sexy but they seem to work great from my sample of 2. My P3AT is phenomenal and the PMR30 is an oddball, but nobody else makes anything similar to my knowledge.

Some of their ideas are really great, others make me shake my head, but if they have something I want, I wouldn’t hesitate to go for it.
 
As much as I enjoy my PMR30 .22WMR is dead to me. If the S&W or the Walther were t threaded and could be suppressed AND had a single-shot lockout then yes I’d be down for that as a hunting/SD pistol. But from round number 1 I knew the KelTec would never fill that fantasy role. If I were deaf… 🤔

At $350 I knew what I was getting into. Owners had long since taken to the web to point out bits to be improved upon and aftermarket support addressed most everything on the list. I got what I wanted and I wanted what I got, which is to say a curious but fun range plinker. That’s not to say that I’m a fan of the entire lineup, though people are keeping them in business.


IMG_7752.jpeg
 
The PMR30's selling point was 30 rounds of decently effective .22 Mag in a pistol. I'm not much interested in that, but the CMR carbine I don't understand why it isn't more popular. I guess the $600 price tag vs the $400 PMR has a bit to do with that.
 
S&W is a totally different design. The Tempo barrel system has gas ports that unlock the locked breech once the bullet passes by.

I have one. Sold my Keltec PMR once I bought it.
Thanks. I assumed it was a copy.

How is the accuracy and reliability between the two?
Since the S&W is using gas is recoil mitigated for follow up shots…should one want quicker follow up shots?
 
Thanks. I assumed it was a copy.

How is the accuracy and reliability between the two?
Since the S&W is using gas is recoil mitigated for follow up shots…should one want quicker follow up shots?

The magazines on the S&W (25 rounds) are more reliable and easier to load than the Kel-Tec (30 rounds). But, I never loaded my Keltec to 30 rounds after having issues at 30 I always loaded to 25 and had better luck with them but still
Had occasional issues with the Keltec magazines but not too bad.

I had some feeding issues with my Keltec when stock, but I did several M*Carbo upgrades which helped but cost money. The polymer feed ramp was I think a larger issue, I put in the stainless steel feed ramp (and polished it) from M*Carbo as well as their “improved” magazine catch which puts the magazine in slightly farther (its tighter at the base) and one has to push harder to get to catch, but results in a higher and more linear feed into the chamber.

After those things mine was pretty reliable other than some magazine issues from time to time. It seemed to run well when I would load magazines right away and shoot them, but some loaded magazines that sat seem to work their way in a bind sometimes.

The trigger on the Keltec was really excellent, and the pistol was pretty accurate. Again it just felt cheap in the hands and when S&W came out with theirs I bought it as I was intrigued by the Tempo barrel system and it feels good in the hand. It’s been reliable.
 
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@BreechFace Thank you. I appreciate the information.
I have found with my Kel Tec CP33 that using a full mag (33 rounds) can be a problem with first round feeding. I load 30 and pull the slide back then release it to load the first round. Often when hitting the mag release on the first round the round will not feed properly, thus jamming the gun.
I think I will try a lesser number of rounds, like 25, and see how it does.

Since I now have a .22 Magnum rifle, a Henry Frontier Octagon, I have been thinking about a .22 Mag pistol.
 
Keltec should just hire Mcarbo as a consultant so they can actually sell finished guns instead of parts kits. Maybe while they are at it they could get a biologist to consult on how tall the sights on a sub2000 need to be so an adult human could actually use them.
 
The first "carry gun" I ever bought was a Kel-Tec P-11, 9mm. I didn't know beans from apple butter about such guns at the time, and I'll be darned if that silly thing didn't just work. For me it was paper plate accurate out to 10 yards or so. The trigger was awful I suppose, but I didn't know any better, so I never thought about it. The only "problem" I remember was that it had some pretty stiff recoil, but it was a small (for it's day) pistol in a pretty powerful cartriidge (9mm). Mr. Newton was right. For every action and so on. As long as I stayed around 50 rounds in a range session it wasn't too bad. Go over 50 and my hand/arm would tingle for days. One of the reason's I got rid of the gun. The other being that something else caught my eye, but I remember that silly P-11 more or less fondly. I don't think I've ever seen another one for sale.

The SCCY is pretty much a copy of the P-11 I believe. I've owned a couple of them and despite all the condemnation on the net, the ones I had worked pretty well. I think I've read one of the guys who started that company was a former Kel-Tec guy. Paper plate accurate, kicked like a mule, but it worked.
 
Looks kinda cool. But don’t need another caliber unless someone were to gift me about 5k rounds of the stuff.

 
Looks kinda cool. But don’t need another caliber unless someone were to gift me about 5k rounds of the stuff.


Interesting. It’s like a gun I would consider when I was young and had less money due to not needing to spend more on magazines. Plus, back then, I thought strippers clips were were cool (thanks, milsurps).

But the ammo cost would have kept the young and poor me away from that gun.

Still, it’s intriguing to me as a “gadget” gun.

 
Looks like they've come full circle, but instead of a .380 loaded by stripper clips it'll be a 5.7 instead.

I understand some of the snobbery towards KelTec. Their pistols are low price, kinda roughly finished and certainly not fine examples of gunsmithing. But they're lightweight, relatively inexpensive and reliable.

I've owned a P32 (now my daughter's) P3AT (now my SIL's) and still have a PF9 that I keep in the console of my Jeep as a "JIC" piece.

From time to time I wish I still had that P32 and might go ahead and get another at some point. But no interest in adding another caliber in the 57.
 
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