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Kel-Tec KSG Initial Impressions

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by HKGuns, Sep 21, 2013.

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  1. Uniquedot

    Uniquedot Member

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    It would surely take me some serious training with something like this or I'd surely be killed by the perp. I'm sitting here looking at this thing shaking my head wondering how in the heck it could possibly come into play as swiftly as a standard 18" barreled wingmaster. I can perhaps see using it to guard an entry/exit, but in a situation where speed of swing is needed I just don't see me being able to do it with one of these.
     
  2. Ranger Roberts

    Ranger Roberts Become a THR contributing member!

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    I don't own a KSG, but one of the guys in my dept does. We've taken it out to the range a few times over the last year or so and it is a lot of fun! It takes a little getting used to, but all new things do. If I came across a deal like the OP did, I probably would have jumped on it as well. Have fun with it!
     
  3. daehawc

    daehawc Member

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    I owned a KSG for a few weeks. Never had a chance to get to the range with it but did get some time to play with the manual of arms. Build quality on mine (newest version, manufacutered in March) was excellent. Some redesigns had been incorporated to solve some of the initial issues.

    The biggest complaint I heard of and could see as being a slight issue was that the gun required a very positive motion to fully cycle. If you tried to cycle it gently, the last quarter inch of travel would fail to load the next round. Putting a stubby vertical grip seemed to be the best bet as it made it easier to avoid short stroking. Also, the stubby grip placed less torque on the lower rails avoiding the inherent weakness of the plastic rails.

    Initially, my intent was to run one tube with slugs and one with buck. In handling the weapon I could see that trying to be selective would be more involved than I would want to mess with during a stressfull event. I think the main strength is just having 14+1 in the gun.

    Overall, I think its a great, innovative design that would take a little dedication to learn a unique manual of arms but would be worth the effort.

    I only bought and sold it as a step in getting a weapon I was speciffically looking for. If I ran into one in the 700-800 price range, I would pick it up in an instant.
     
  4. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    After watching a whole team of KelTec SMEs fail to get their KSG running on the most important day of the year, I'd definitely shoot it a lot before trusting it.

    John
     
  5. HKGuns

    HKGuns Member

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    I took it to the range today. I had one interesting failure on the second round fired. It would not eject the spent hull, locked up tighter than a drum and I had to disassemble in order to get it to eject.

    Once I got it back together I ran off another 10 shots without any further issues. I was shooting Winchester 1600 FPS defense slugs and limited my shooting because I was on the 100 yard Range, the only one open at the time. I wanted to use the 50 yard range to sight it in but it was closed for an event. Even at 100 yards I was able to put them right on the target without issue. I ran slugs out of both magazines and had no issues with feeding or ejection after the initial trouble.

    There is a lot of cheek slap due to the way you mount the gun.

    I will need an event less range trip or two to build up some confidence after that initial failure.
     
  6. PabloJ

    PabloJ member

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    I would not trust that "Pandora's Box" full of moving parts no matter how much I have shot it. There are too many parts in that thing.
     
  7. daehawc

    daehawc Member

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    The KSG doesnt really have that many more moving parts than any other pump shotgun. The Mag tubes and switching for them are standard with a lever to block off the unused tube, and you have linkage from the trigger to the hammer.

    I'm sure they had some issues at the beginning. Any gun can have issues. Add in that its a completely new design and there are some growing pains. That said, they seemed to get the problems worked out quickly and those who've fired them seem to love them.

    Again, I owned one but never fired it. I was personally impressed with the build quality.
     
  8. Torian

    Torian Member

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    I want one just because I don't have one. How does this handle magnum loads or slugs? Recoil managed any better or worse than a 870?
     
  9. CHighfield

    CHighfield Member

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    Be careful with loading different loads into the tubes. It isn't as bad with loading two lethal types like slug and buckshot, but it could still be problematic.

    I've heard people say "OH, COOL! You could, like, load one tube with lethal and one tube with, like, non-lethal!"

    only problem with this is you switch tubes to NON-LETHAL and forget to rack out the LETHAL slug in the chamber and you accidentally kill someone/something.

    With your setup you'll just kill something either way haha
     
  10. HKGuns

    HKGuns Member

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    Pablo, it isn't that different than any other pump other than where things are laid out. In fact, with the takedown pins I'd venture to say it has fewer parts and screws and things.

    Good point. I have no plans to put anything non lethal in this particular gun.
     
  11. HKGuns

    HKGuns Member

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    Torian, I would imagine the recoil is worse than the 870 with anything because of the cheekweld and it being lighter weight overall.
     
  12. 3212

    3212 Member

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    I just put my 1956 model 12 12Ga,26 in,modified in the corner next to my bed.00 buckshot converts it from my bird gun to HD.
     
  13. CharlieDeltaJuliet

    CharlieDeltaJuliet Member

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    I put a lot of thought and time into the KSG. I determined it wasn't the right shotgun for me. I honestly think the design is solid but I have seen too many Kel-Tec issues for my liking. I had a buddy who had to ship his SU2000 back three times to finally get the thing to feed and run properly. He loves it now and it runs great now. I just think they have too many QC issues for me.

    That being said the market is right for a high cap shotgun. A semi auto may be too much to ask and the rotating magazine extensions are not for me either.

    If Kel-Tec can get their issues fixed, then I would be the first to be an owner. I would want to put a few hundred rounds through one to trust it.
     
  14. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

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    I suppose the high asking prices for these guns suggest that. I have no clue what the KSG is supposed to do that other guns can't, but they are cool and marketable as hell, and to stand out in a field as crowded and resistant to change as the pump shotgun world is truly an accomplishment. I've always been befuddled that Keltec didn't do it's high cap shotgun concept as a semi. Putting aside the question of whether or not 14 rounds is practical for any use, that many pumps is definitely asking a bit much compared to a semi-auto action. There's a reason why manual cycling arms don't normally go above about 10 rounds (and bolt actions are much easier to cycle than a shotgun forearm ;) ). A semi auto KSG would be one scary force to be reckoned with :evil:

    TCB
     
  15. jehu

    jehu Member

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    In todays world of random home invasions where 3-5 young men are comming thru the door , it is comforting to have 15rds avalible.:banghead:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2013
  16. Blacksmoke

    Blacksmoke Member

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    All that is good and I applaud your skills and perseverance in mastering that weapon. Truly.

    As for me, I have my Stoeger coach gun...

    Let's see, barrel A or barrel B?

    That is about as much as I can handle. Although I did drag the Mossberg 535 out after a bear demolished a neighbor's freezer over the weekend.

    I am in awe of these modern dual magazine shotguns.
     
  17. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Member

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    I'm sticking with my Benelli M1 super 90 and eight rounds
     
  18. Justin

    Justin Moderator Emeritus

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    The KSG is an awesome concept, and one that I hope leads to further refinements and developments from other companies.

    Setting aside for a moment the reported reliability issues with the KSG, the one thing I am fundamentally unimpressed with is how dexterity-intensive it is to reload the gun. With a bit of practice, using the weak-hand technique, I've reloaded a traditional shotgun with eight rounds in ~9 seconds.

    From what I've seen, in order to reload the KSG, you have to reach way up into the receiver to load it, and it doesn't seem like any of the traditional techniques for quickly reloading a shotgun would work, and I'm unaware of any new techniques that make reloading the KSG as fast as or faster than reloading a traditional semi-auto or pump gun.

    While this may seem like nitpicking, I think it's very important for a couple of reasons.

    1.) Reloading tube-fed shotguns is the most labor- and coordination-intensive reloading action done for any of the three major types of gun (rifle, pistol, shotgun.)

    2.) One of the advantages of the shotgun is the ability to load it with ammunition adapted to specialty needs, e.g., quickly executing an unanticipated select-slug drill.

    Granted, these concerns are somewhat alleviated by the relatively high capacity of the KSG in the case of the first issue, and by loading one tube with, say, buckshot and the other with slugs in the case of the second. Still, regardless of the capacity of the gun, it is still limited, which means you have to reload sometime, and opting to use the tubes to categorize your ammunition is going to come with it's own issues, such as remembering which tube is which, and remembering to hit the selector, to say nothing of the fact that organizing your ammunition in the tubes effectively halves the amount of preferred ammunition you have loaded in the gun.

    Don't get me wrong. I really like the idea of the KSG. Shotguns have noticeably lagged behind handguns and rifles in the development and adoption of new technologies that make the guns more user-friendly, and the KSG is a large step in the right direction, however, I don't the dual-tube/bullpup configuration is ready for prime time yet.
     
  19. DNS

    DNS Member

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    Interesting design and looks fun to play with but I'm thinking like most of Keltecs long arms its more of a niche piece.

    As far as defending the castle from 3-5 home invaders; that's what my AR is for.
     
  20. justice06rr

    justice06rr Member

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    Thanks for the review and impressions. I think the KSG and other similar shotgun designs are cool, but warrants some refinement by the manufacturer and also requires the shooter plenty of practice before becoming proficient with its use.

    I would buy one if offered a good deal on it as the OP, but its reliability and QC issues is what would hold me back from owning one. IMHO a Saiga12 or Benelli M4 would be a better option if you wanted a more proven and reliable and efficient high-capacity shotgun.

    It remains to be seen how well Keltec will refine the KSG. I imagine they are not ramping up production to meet the demand in order to keep it a highly-sought shotgun, but also to fix the current issues that many owners seem to have with it.
     
  21. evan price

    evan price Member

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    KelTec makes some really cool range toys but here it is, how long since the PMR30, KSG and the RFB have been released? and I have yet to see one of any of them actually in the flesh anywhere- and I go to a lot of gun shows and gun stores. I did see a couple SU16s so those really do exist, and I own a Sub-2000.
    What is it with Keltec and not being able to get product to the people?

    As far as parts count- Lay out a Mossberg 500 next to a KSG and strip both of them.

    If you need 15 rounds for home defence you live in the wrong neighborhood. KSG is a nice range toy. Not much else. Be the coolest guy on the firing line with a KSG for 50% over MSRP!

    Yeah, I suppose I'm letting my Fudd flag fly here, but hey it looks really tacticool on the cover of the shooting magazines.
     
  22. Justin

    Justin Moderator Emeritus

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    I love how even on a gun forum we have people willing to belittle other people's choice in guns because they think the gun's magazine capacity doesn't meet their arbitrary definition of 'reasonable.'

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4
     
  23. CharlieDeltaJuliet

    CharlieDeltaJuliet Member

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    Don't get me wrong, I love Kel-Tec's design, and their customer service is the best I have ever heard tell of. My buddy who has the SU2000 loves it. Kel-Tec gave him two extra magazines for his trouble. I am just afraid of the first gen KSG's and it would be my luck I got one with QC issues... That's why I said I would want to put a hundred or so rounds through them. I think once they catch up to the market they will be the best selling shotguns out. Kel-Tec just needs to expand their operations. Once they get their firearms out there they will be around for a long time to come.

    I forget how many employees there were at their manufacturing facility, it wasn't many IMO. I love that they think outside the box and make firearms that are unique.
     
  24. HKGuns

    HKGuns Member

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    Wow, aren't you full of opinion?

    You'll be happy to know:

    - I live in a very safe neighborhood.
    - I paid less than MSRP.
    - I was the coolest guy at the range long before I bought the KSG.
    - Defence is properly spelled "Defense" in the USA (even oHIo).

    You base your "range toy" statement on personal experience, or you're just popping off because it makes you feel better?
     
  25. jojo200517

    jojo200517 Member

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    I really like the look of them and if they are still around in a couple years and the bugs have been worked out and someone makes a non polymer rail for them I might consider one if they are under $1k.

    Thinking about the hand gaurd one of those modular designs like ATI has made for AR's and other shotguns would be nice I think.

    As far as choke tubes I could really care less. It appears to pretty much be designed as a short range weapon not a bird hunting shotgun.

    For now i'll stick with my 590a1 for home defense/fighting shotgun. I'm pretty confident in it and the manual of arms for it.
     
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