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Kel-Tec P-11: Hell Week.

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by sm, Oct 31, 2007.

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  1. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    Kel-Tec P-11: Hell Week.

    Young lady CCW’s a Steel Colt Combat Commander, Colt 7 rd mags, or a Model 66 with full house .357s loads.
    Last time under a clock, she was .9 seconds from concealment to first shot onto target.
    She has been shooting 1911 and K frames since she was 9 years old. She learned to shoot at age 5 with a .22 revolver, transitioned to Model 10. Next up, she learned semi-auto with a 1911 with a .22 conversion.

    She wanted a Niche gun.
    Her choice from shooting a variety, and based on some recommendations from some folks, a Kel-Tec P-11.

    Hers is a NIB, in the 115xxx serial number range. One of quite a few stuck back by someone we know.
    Magazines are from this time period as well.

    She was raised right, and with quality guns, guns that run out of the box. The only thing one should have to do is remove factory preservative, re-lubricate and shoot the gun.
    Gun fit to shooter may be tweaked with different stocks.
    She was raised to shoot, and gunfight, her sights of choice, 14k yellow gold beads.

    She wanted a niche gun; niche is none of anyone’s business.
    She wanted a gun, that would be easy to take apart, put back, and safety included not having to pull the trigger, special tools or anything.
    The ability to shoot lead bullets, if wanted to, as she happens to like what HG #68 in a 200 gr load does in a 1911, and 158 gr LSWCHP and LSWC, does out of a K frame.
    The option to use lead bullets in a 9mm appeals to her; she has shot tens of thousands from her BHPs.

    Fluff and Buff is not in her vocabulary. She is a lady; still her Mentors were Special Forces, and similar folks. She does not depend on hardware, equipment, to stay safe. She refuses to attend some “facilities that teach”.
    She was taught to run stages with no gun, improvise, adapt, overcome – survive.
    Running and Gunning, as she was raised - there were trip wires, so one was best to pay attention and not trip a wire.
    She has a killer body and smile, and she can take you down before you know you are down.
    She is not an equipment person, only as far as what is needed, broken down to least complicated, reliable, and least “noticeable”.

    With her killer smile, she asked I and some of mine would like to be part of Hell Week.
    Hell Yeah!
  2. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    Is a nickname I come up with a long long time ago, for some of the stuff we were doing. Out of respect for Mentors & Elders, I have continued to use it.

    Gun has to run, including mags, to get shots placed.

    She and I have known each other for sometime, we know how each other thinks.
    We get a real big kick out of busting myths and rebelling.

    NIB, take apart, all parts are there.
    NIB four mags, load up, and shoot each of these twice.

    Gun run, no malfs, we hit what shooting at.

    Snickering, we took apart this gun and mags.
    She has some of the old original Hoppe's No.9, and Breakfree CLP from '79 or '80.

    Nah...Hot Water, Lemon Joy Dishwashing soap, we like the Lemon smell.
    Hit with air hose.
    Lube with BF CLP

    Now I had written down the number of turns on the Allen Screw, that hold in Firing pin.

    Everything is clean, dried and my deal is to run a pipe cleaner with Zippo Lighter fluid through Firing Pin Channel.
    Allen screw put in, double check, triple check fitting, freedom of Firing Pin, and then small automatic center punch to "notch" Allen Screw to slide.
    This keeps in place, and marks it for future removal, easier to count turns and line up.

    Also checked was to see if mags dropped easy.
    This gun did from get go.
    Easy fix if they don't.

    Two mags we added the Kel-Tec Factory pinkie extensions.
    Two we left as they come.

    We do not do trigger shoes on anything.
    She was distracted by the 3 white dot sight system.
    I agree, still I run mine with this system as I deal with new folks, and seeing this gun as it comes is why I leave mine alone.
    My deal, she agrees, learn the gun as is, then if it needs something, tweak "fit to shooter.

    [Some serious folks run gold beads on guns, so some P-11s have gold bead front, dark rear sights.]

    We had some additional magazines, all Kel-Tec factory , some with pinkie extensions, some with out. These are marked various ways, to identify who these belong to.

    1500 rounds of 20 year old hand loaded Lead SWC
    1000 rounds of CCI Blazer 115 gr.
    500 rds of Fiocchi 115 gr FMJ
    3000 rounds.

    Folks gathered to assist in keeping ~ 30 mags loaded
    First Relay, she started with 30 mags, loaded with the 20 year old Lead SWC.
    My idea, best way to get used to that trigger, is to shoot the damn thing.

    As fast as she could run the gun she shot.
    No malfunctions with Ammunition , Gun, or Mags.
    300 rds under our belt already.
  3. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    I get these stiff wire utility brushes from NAPA on a twisted wire.
    I bent one, to fit chamber, with slide racked back.
    One I left straight, just I close the loop to hold a piece of T shirt for a patch.

    I used the bent one to deal with chamber, all we care about.
    Pipe cleaned breach face, and extractor.

    My turn to shoot.
    Guns have to run port up, port down, upside down, one handed strong, one handed weak, held lightly by trigger finger and thumb (just enough to hold onto gun) and two hands of course from strong and weak.

    New gun, so a drop of CLP on each rail.
    On the ground, shooting up and over my head I start.
    The all the other positions I mentioned.
    I wanted to stay with the four mags she will use with this gun.
    I ran each mag at least twice.

    Then I went as fast and furious as I could for 300 total rounds of this 20 year Lead SWC.

    600 rds, no malfs.

    Now we took the gun apart for a look. Typical wear marks.
    Wipe off debris with a paper towel.
    I cleaned chamber again, with straight brush, and while we don't clean bores, once the chamber is clean, punch through with brush, with a T shirt patch in that loop.
    Toothbrush the breach face, extractor.

    Mags. Toothbrush these, push follower down a bit, wipe with pipe cleaner.

    We let the others shoot.

    We shot all of that 20 year old Lead SWC the first day.
    No malfs, with ammunition, gun , or mags.

    Trigger is smoothing up, gun is too...

    1500 rds, one day.
  4. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    Gun taken apart, using a disposable pipette, to dispense Hoppe's No. 9 we cleaned the gun. Chamber , Extraction, and Magazines all we really care about.

    Lubed with CLP.

    Now some ammunition was tossed in the mix, some carry loads that had been set back to shoot up.
    115 and 124 gr JHPs. From Win STHP, Gold Dots, Golden Saber, Hydrashocks to who knows what all.

    This all ran. 90 rounds so a another 10 rd mag of New 124 gr standard pressure Fed HS shot, to make an even 100 rds.

    We like the Fiocchi ammunition, so we shot all that up.
    100 + 500 = 600 rds that day.

    No clean, just when the slide was racked, wiped off the debris and added some CLP at around 300 rds.

    This gun liked the Win STHP and Fed standard pressure 124s.
    200 rds of each was fast tracked "found".
    50 rds of NATO "appeared".

    It was time to get a bit more serious.
    We had been shooting some targets, 6" and 9" paper plates for COM with a index card for Head.
    Shooting paint buckets, coffee cans, taking shots at tin cans and some serious fun with golf balls.
    Ringing steels was what I was having fun doing, that and playing with a can of black spray paint.
    To be safe, I ran steels from "cover" at 10 yds in, then moving back - got in a groove at 35 -40 yds.

    Main deal was running the gun.
  5. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    Her High Noon Holster, and mag carriers came in faster than expected.
    So did the spare parts from Kel-Tec.
    Recoil springs, guide rod, take down pin, firing pin, Allen screws.
    Just a good idea to have parts in the event one needs.

    Down Under : http://www.highnoonholsters.com/Product_Line/_Down_Under_Straps/_down_under_straps.html
    Tie Breaker : http://www.highnoonholsters.com/Product_Line/_Tie_Breaker/_tie_breaker.html

    Now we don't normally do timers. We "start" with gun shot, a "crash", "glass breaking" , "scream", ...
    Just goes back to not being a programmed shooter. We sorta doubt a BG is going to have a timer and give one a "buzz start".

    Last time we did a timer, someone brought one out for the kids to mess with, and learn about, and mess with.

    With her new holster and carriers, she started with the NATO rds.
    I threw a glass bottle down breaking it, signaling her to start.

    Playing card at 5 yds, and 7, all 20 shots into card.
    Playing card at 7 yds and 10 all 20 shots into
    Playing card at 15 yds, all shots into card.

    She continued doing various drills, from all positions , with the 400 rds total of STHP and HS.

    Midway, taking a break wiped off any gunk, added some CLP and again, this gun continued to run with its mags.
  6. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    Gun inspected, and maintained.
    Chamber being the only thing we concern ourselves about and the bore has this nice look to it.
    Trigger is smoother and faster.

    CCI blazer was shot over the next two days.
    Other folks wanted to shoot this gun, with ~ 30 mags brought out to again facilitate shooting.

    Owner, wanted to mess with some guns. Like running 100 slugs total between a 12 ga and 20 bore shotgun.

    Lady friend of mine was shooting this gun again and got into a groove with steels at 40 yards. Then kept backing up and went 7/10 at 90 yards.
    She then got "smirky" I call it, and went 5 golf balls straight from ~ 7 steps.
    I waved a candy bar, "bet you can't get the sixth one".
    She missed the sixth but got number 7 and 10.

    No Fluff and Buff, the only accessory was the pinkie extensions.

    We took down the gun, went over it real good under magnification [Optivisor] cleaned , including firing pin channel, magazines, everything spotless.
    Assembled and lubed.

    Loaded up carry mags, and shot each mag twice.
    Gun works.
    Took apart, wiped off any debris, did the chamber, lube.
    Loaded carry mags with carry loads.
    Fired each mag once.
    Reloaded mags, with carry loads, two mags are JHPs, two are FMJ.
    She shot 4 rounds, left a round chambered, dropped mag, inserted a mag of 9
    Filled up the other mag to 10
    We don't do plus one loadings.

    She carries a dirty gun, and she has her niche gun.
  7. RecoilRob

    RecoilRob Member

    Sep 30, 2003
    That it GREAT! Having carried the P-11 for several years now, I love the thing. Mine is a bit newer than hers...123XXX...but has been rock solid reliable.

    The experience that KT had with the P-40 showed that most malfunctions were from people not used to shooting snorty little autopistols. The P-11 isn't as snorty, but still needs a practiced hand to run well.

    Great shooting and thanks for the report!
  8. Litlman

    Litlman Member

    Dec 27, 2002
    N.E Pa
    SM, Nice post. Thank you for the info.
  9. kludge

    kludge Member

    Jun 15, 2006
    I haven't shot that much ammo, but my P-11 has also been 100% out-of-the-box with various kinds of ammo.

    Great review, thanks!
  10. clone

    clone Member

    May 29, 2005
    iv carryed mine for about two months (when i received my ccw permit) now without a problem. i have added the belt clip for easy carry, a 20lb Wolff recoil spring to reduce felt recoil and a Wolff extra power fireing pin spring to make it drop safe up to about 6ft. i bought two 12rd mags to go along with the standard 10rd, im confident 13rds of 9mm will get me out of any situation that i cant run from.
    oh i also bought the finger extentions for all 3 mags makeing it a bit easy to hang on to, it doesnt add to much to the size, and iv never been made when carrying it cliped inside my pants on the belt line and my shirt pulled down.

    the only downside i can find with it is the barrel needs to be Tenifer treated, carrying while sweaty can spot rust the barrel at the breech.
  11. ak-kev

    ak-kev Member

    Sep 6, 2007
    Lakeland, Florida
    I agree with everyone here. My P11 has been flawless too, with 750rds downrange. I too carry the factory 12rd mags. Its a great little gun!!


  12. Srigs

    Srigs Member

    Feb 14, 2006
    My P11 is reliable with everything but 147 grain stuff. It is a primary gun in the summer and back up in the winter.
  13. chris in va

    chris in va Member

    Mar 4, 2005
    Louisville KY
    Got mine on my hip as we speak. I certainly haven't done that sort of testing, but so far no real malfs that I can remember. My hat's off to you though, as this little gun can certainly buck.
  14. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

    Sep 21, 2007
    Californicated Colorado
    Now you got me itching!!
    My P11 is supposed to be on its way in the mail to my FFL. I'm going to have to get on the email and make sure it is flying my way!
    First thing I'll do is take it straight out to my range and feed it a box.
    Thanks guys!!
  15. sm

    sm member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears

    Actually I am a huge believer in Used Police Trade in Model 10s.

    Part of my Doctorate Work in getting my PhD in Reprobate, to go along with Master's in Curmudgeon hood, is to get folks to quit buying the OLDer guns and buy more newer plastic guns.

    Trading in the OLDer ones of course...*smirk*

    P-11s for me and my kind, are just double action plastic pistols that take a mag.
    Just another tool in the toolbox, nothing more, nothing less, that have worked for us.
    The Older guns get stuck back, cherished, preserved and all.

    P-11s take trips whether by Plane, or Vehicles and less concerns with this than say a nice sentimental older wood and blue gun.

    Toss one in a farm , ranch truck, tractor , combine...these work for putting down a cow, or if two legged dopers show up, or all sorts of duty.

    Extreme weather conditions, and by law using a lockable container in travels, less muss and fuss that again a nice old Model 19 that was grandpa's, might cause.

    Heck, some of the old business hidden guns have been replaced by these.
    Nice Colt Combat Commanders, BHPs, Model 10, 64,66, 19s...

  16. sixgunner455

    sixgunner455 Member

    Aug 25, 2006
    Had one of those for a couple of years. Carried it all over the country, shot it a lot, and it never bobbled. Length and weight of trigger pull combined with recoil pain in my arthritic wrist sent it down the road, with a bit of regret.

    Carrying a 642 now, with standard pressure loads, and it is much better. Shorter, easier trigger pull, less recoil.

    Good on her for getting something that works for her.
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