KEL-TEC shipping $200K worth of SUB-2000's to Ukraine

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by someguy2800, Mar 21, 2022.

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  1. Crosshair

    Crosshair Member

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    True. The British government secretly used civilian ocean liners in WW1 to transport war materials, like the Lusitania, hoping for civilian casualties to bring Neutral countries into the war.
     
  2. Obturation

    Obturation Member

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    200k worth of kel-tecs , sweet. Just not sure how they'll get back all firearms they ever produced to send.
    Just joking, kel-tecs are ok.
     
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  3. ECVMatt
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    ECVMatt Contributing Member

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    OK here is my take,

    I recently purchased a S2K for a good price with the intention of basically proving it was a piece of junk. Try as I may, I could not get it to jam and it was more than accurate enough to make head shots at 50 yards and hit a silhouette at 100. I did upgrade mine with better parts, but it was more for my piece of mind. The gun did run fine from the factory. I now have about 700 rounds through the rifle with no malfunctions of any kind. I can't say the same about my CMMG Banshee even though the Banshee would appear to be the better made gun.

    As for how this rifle could be beneficial in Ukraine, well I see it as a more advanced version of the WWII Liberator. They can be folded up and hidden in the sleeve of a coat, backpack, etc. They can be hidden easier than a full sized battle rifle in a dewling. They uses common ammunition and I have seen a ton of Glocks in the pics from over there, so I would guess mags are not problem either. It would be a good rifle to shoot a Russian with and take his rifle.

    Could this be a publicity stunt, for sure. Could the rifles get sold before they get to Ukraine, for sure. But if only one rifle kills one Russian then it is worth it to me.

    I would not want to fight a war with one of these rifles, but if it was a S2K or a molotov cocktail I am picking the S2K. I hope some make it over there and they are put to proper use.
     
  4. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    I personally think it’s a great firearm to get into the fray. Fold it and pack it away concealed. Sneak it into some location past security and then deploy it. It’s weak, small, and battlefield questionable, but it’s also concealable, aimable, and potent enough to work in close proximity. Consider the effectiveness of paratrooper m1 carbines in the hands of the French resistance fighters. These guns are smaller, lighter, and similarly powerful. Use it, lose it, get the hell out of dodge.
     
  5. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    Another thing to consider is that giving this as a PDW to a rear echelon troop or civilian militia frees up another battle rifle for someone else.
     
  6. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    I seriously doubt that there’s much need for additional rifles over there… while I’m certain they need more ammo… and techs to keep those weapons running right (combloc weapons tend to be made to work in horrendous battlefield conditions)…
    As for the Keltecs - anyone using one had better pray that their opponents are only armed with pistols… something not very likely.
     
  7. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    That "goofy little plastic carbine" should be very effective for tankers and others who mostly need a defensive firearm. The "peashooter" is more powerful than the standard 9x18mm Ukraine sidearm round, with the additional benefit of 12 more inches of barrel, and a longer sight radius and stock.

    The Sub-2000 could also be used in a low observability posture, but ready for action in less than a minute. Full-auto fire is nice sometimes, but not essential.

    John
     
  8. DeepSouth
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    DeepSouth Random Guy

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    I’ve never been to Ukraine and really know nothing about it. I have no military experience of any kind so I really don’t know what I’m talking about.

    BUT, I know we gave a lot of weapons to Afghans, who has them now? I just think their is a good chance Russia may end up with a lot of what we are sending.

    I’m glad I’m not in charge of many of these decisions.
     
  9. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure that a folding PCC will be what the new Communists are rocking when they decided to re-enact Invasion USA. Russia makes plenty of dedicated combat weapons which already have the reputation for being tough as nails. They absolutely don't need this to arm their troops.

    On the other hand, Ukraine is being attacked by a Russian juggernaut. Anything we can do to help chop the bear down into bite-sized bits is good.
     
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  10. Nature Boy
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    Nature Boy Contributing Member

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    $200,000 in PCCs in exchange for $(_,___,___) in free publicity.

    Give the marketing dude that came up with this idea a promotion.
     
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  11. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    We did the same thing in WWII.

    Civilians were asked to donate guns, which were mostly sporting arms and handguns, to Britain, which many did.

    Worry about weapons falling into Russians hands? That’s a certainty if you have nothing to fight with.

    For whatever their reasons, I applaud Kel-Tec. As far as Ukrainian democracy, I think this is more about letting the bear know there are consequences to territorial aggression in the modern age rather than saying the Ukraine is wonderful.
     
  12. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    I don't give a crap about the Ukrainian government or russia's or ours for that matter. But governments don't fight wars, they direct them. The citizens in each respective country are the ones that do the fighting and dying. So if you have contempt for a countries government just remember the people in charge don't necessarily represent the values of the people. Just take our own government as an example.
     
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  13. DeepSouth
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    DeepSouth Random Guy

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    That’s a simple and logical assessment,
    Thank You for it.

    As I said, I’m glad I’m not in charge of such things.
     
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  14. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    This is the greatest advantage. A civilian could walk down the street with a Sub2000 folded under their coat and occupying Russian troops would be none the wiser until it's brought to bear.

    This sort of work is what the Sub2000 was built for. Near-pistol concealability but with the ease of aim and repeatable accuracy of a rifle.

    For anyone who hasn't handled a Sub2000, with a bit of practice the rifle can be unfolded and shouldered in just a few seconds.
     
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  15. zaitcev

    zaitcev Member

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    They don't need more than 1 mag to execute some uppity Russian peasants, which is all a SUB2000 is good for at war. These 400 guns are going to go to some terbat, so that 400 real AKs can be sent to a front line unit.
     
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  16. Mosin77

    Mosin77 Member

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    I know this post won’t make me very popular, but… If I were a Russian soldier and a Ukrainian civilian pulled one of these out of concealment I’d think a good cause could be made for executing him as a partisan, violating the laws of war by being out of uniform. And I’d be inclined to shoot first and ask questions later. As our boys did many times in the sandbox when “civilians” suddenly brandished weapons. I hate to think of untrained civilians being issued these (because they’re perfect for such use and nearly useless for anything else) and meeting an untimely end from a round of 5.45. I wonder if KelTec will be civilly liable for supplying weapons that are supplied in such a way, given that the Ukrainian government *has* handed out weapons to civilians in this conflict. If a guy is carrying an AK openly at least he can be called part of a militia or something. In my opinion this is irresponsible virtue signaling at its worst.
     
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  17. rust collector
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    rust collector Moderator Staff Member

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    Sounds like the theory behind the WWII liberator pistols. Shoot an enemy soldier and take his gun and ammo. Something is better than nothing, and disparaging a giver's motivation seems petty.
     
  18. Mosin Bubba

    Mosin Bubba Member

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    I have my doubts that these Sub 2Ks even make it to the battlefield. A no-strings-attached giveaway that has to go through customs officials and quartermasters before arriving at the front... someone in that chain is likely to pocket these crates and sell them.

    I don't go shopping for black market PCCs every day, but even selling them for $200 USD apiece would be 80 grand free and clear for some Ukrainian official. If you're stuck in a hyper-inflated warzone, that money could take you and your family a long way.

    I don't doubt Keltec's sincerity, but I do doubt the integrity of ex-bloc governments.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2022
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  19. Mosin Bubba

    Mosin Bubba Member

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    Double post.
     
  20. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    I’m gonna guess that a Russian soldier that sees absolutely anyone with a firearm is going to shoot first and not ask questions later. Rules of war don’t apply to civilians anyway.
     
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  21. Mosin77

    Mosin77 Member

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    Exactly my point. Donating civilian weapons to make ourselves feel good -at best- does nothing, at worst, is likely to get poor Pyotr or Boris or Ivanka killed.
     
  22. kidneyboy

    kidneyboy Member

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    Pretty sure the western media/government's description of Ukrainian democracy is not the current reality in the Ukraine. Just a couple of years ago they were the bad guys and now they are suppose to be some bastion of democracy?
    Give this a couple of minutes of thought. The Ukraine has an autocratic non-western government. It has never had anything different. The very idea that they hold some sort of democratic leanings is ludicrous on its face.
     
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  23. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    Without it Pyotr or Boris or Ivanka may have no weopon to fight with at all. It’s their choice to fight or not, if they don’t want to get killed they should clear the area.
     
  24. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    They have been a multi party democracy since 1996. A highly corrupt one nonetheless but so is ours.
     
  25. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    One thing a sub2000 would be uniquely suited for is if they could find or build suppressors to put on them. There was a video floating around of an auto shop in Ukrainian that was fabricating stocks and triggers to put on coaxial machine guns stripped out of abandoned Russian tanks.
     
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