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Kimber 84 Hunter

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Newtosavage, May 3, 2017.

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  1. Savage99

    Savage99 Member

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    Kimber rifles have become the SS hunting rifles I like best with a lifetime battery of old M70's and yes a 99F in ..358!
    I like Kimbers light weight, modern synthetic stocks, Stainless Steel, made in the USA, reliability and accuracy,
    I have their 8400's in 7mm and 270 WSM and 84M's in 243 and 308.
     
  2. Steve S.

    Steve S. Member

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    In addition to my 84M CC in .308, I also own an 82 CC (.22 RF) that Kimber no longer manufactures; I have the same very high regard for the fit/ finish, quality, trigger, wood, super accurate, etc. - great rifle for the money. My experience with a Kimber rifle is 2X, small sample but only experience I have - flawless experiences for both. As a side note, my experience of reading any thread about any subject (guns, cars, tools, customer service, etc ad nauseam) on the net is always the same - good experiences are always matched by equal/ opposite bad experiences. The bad/ good seem to neutralize the ability to make a decent decision; but every once in a while you get a "drumbeat" of good or bad that provides comfort and direction. I urge everyone to keep posting their experiences; I will continue to search for the drumbeat. Thank you for the ongoing help and good reading.
     
  3. Poper

    Poper Member

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    I gotta say, I originally bought my 84M as a present to myself for completing a major project and turning a fair profit.
    I had to special order it to get it in .260 Remington. I couldn't get it to shoot a group less than about 3". Several kinds of factory ammo, bullet weights, handloads, powders from Varget to Reloader 17, to IMR 4350 and many more. After 5 years of frustration, it went to the back of the safe and remained there until it made its way back to Kimber and then back to me in 2015. According to Kimber CS, they couldn't get it to shoot, either. As Kimber no longer chambered .260 Rem. (at the time, but now, maybe they do again) they rebarreled it in .308 Win. at my request.

    What I like about the 84M: It's petite. Excellent proportions that is pleasing for a rifle guy to look at. The Select Grade came with a Claro walnut stock of fairly plain grain and no forend tip. The cut checkering was very well executed and makes it easy to grip the rifle. It is very light to carry, even with the wood stock and a leather sling. The finish on the wood is perfect for my tastes and the fit and finish of the rifle overall is above average.
    What I don't like: I have never had it out hunting as it is unreliable and not very accurate. (Don't tell me about shooting light rifles. I had no trouble getting my Browning A-Bolt Mountain Ti in .308 Win. to shoot 3/4" groups. With handloads. I never tried any factory ammo in it.) I do not like the wing safety (similar to the Winchesters - don't like it on them either) as I prefer a tang mounted safety as in Browning, Savage or Remington, etc. The bluing on the replacement barrel is a different shade than the blued finish of the receiver and bottom metal. The firing pin light strikes the primer causing (I believe) misfires. The photo shown is two of such misfires.

    The up shot: Is it possible my 84M is just one of those lemons that happen in every industry? Of course. I wish it wasn't though, because (like my wife of 29 years) it is a pretty little thing. Would I buy another one? No.

    I am a competitive shooter and shoot High Power Silhouette and Small Bore Silhouette at the "A" class level. My high power rifle is a Tikka T3 Light in 6.5x55 Swede; Hunter class; max. wt. = 9lbs. - mine weighs in at 8lbs. 1 oz. The Small Bore rifle is a Sako Finfire II. Both sport 30mm tube Vortex 6.5-20x50 side focus scopes.
     

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  4. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    At no charge to you and for a ten year old rifle .... that's good CS if you ask me.

    That's not a design issue, just a personal preference issue which is understandable. For example, I won't buy a hunting rifle that doesn't have a bolt that can be locked but that's not an important feature to many hunters.

    Since Kimber replaced the barrel at no charge you could have opted to pay to have the receiver and bottom metal finished to match the barrel. As it is, did you expect Kimber to match the finish on the new barrel to the 10 year old receiver and bottom metal? Even if all of the metal is redone, it can still be hard to match the finish. Black oxide is as much an art as it is a science and it's unreasonable to expect a perfect match under the circumstances.

    One of the primer strikes shown looks ok but there are possible reasons for light primer strikes that may or may not be due to the rifle. That said, did you have light strikes with the .260 Rem barrel? Have you tried different brands of factory ammunition? If so, measure the firing pin protrusion and check that it's about .055". Another option is to call CS and get a new firing pin spring sent out. If you go that route and replace the spring yourself (it's not hard) make sure that the firing pin is straight. Have you removed the firing pin and checked that it's clean and lightly oiled. Have you checked the chamber with a GO and NO-GO gauge? Assuming that your rifle is experiencing light primer strikes, it's not rocket science to resolve the issue.

    For the record, I've shot many, many Kimber rifles and own five. I've bought Kimber rifles for two girlfriends, worked up hunting loads for those rifles and have worked up hunting loads for my own Kimbers and have never had a problem getting a rifle/load to put five shots into a 0.75" group or better and typically in the 0.65" range. When I shoot a group I usually shoot five rounds in less than two minutes from a cold, clean bore. That's a realistic test to me.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  5. cdb1

    cdb1 Member

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    That is because it is CRF rather than push feed. CRF rifles have wobbly bolts.
     
  6. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    Typically rifles like Kimbers with wing type safeties that cam the cocking piece off the sear have "wobbly" bolts with the safety on because there's nothing pulling the bolt lugs back against the receiver. Once the safety is off, the bolt is much less "wobbly" since it's making hard contact with the receiver and sear at the front and rear of the bolt. Bolt actions with trigger safeties that don't capture the firing pin seem to exhibit less "wobble" with the safety on.
     
  7. Sniper66

    Sniper66 Member

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    I have the 84M with fluted SS barrel and wood stock in .204. Everything the OP says is true of mine; smooth operation, fine fit & finish, terrific trigger and most importantly, very accurate. 100s of dead prairie dogs are proof of it's accuracy.
     
  8. Poper

    Poper Member

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    My wife bought a Honda Accord new in 2001. In 2008 with about 56,000 miles on it, the car began to make some unusual and disturbing noises in the drive train. We took to the Honda dealer. They said the transmission was defective. They replaced it with a brand new one at no charge. No charge for parts, no charge for labor, no charge for fluid, no charge for shop materials, no charge period. They did apologize for the loss of the use of our vehicle and handed it back to us cleaner than the day we took it in there.
    THAT, my friend, is Customer Service!

    A large percentage of my reloading tools and equipment are RCBS. I have their Chargemaster. I am on my third one. Each of the first two went a little wacko and started giving strange and inconsistent readouts. Each time I called them and spoke to a real person in less than 5 minutes. Each time they requested I return the unit to them for inspection and repair. Both times the defective units were far beyond their warranty periods by about a factor of two. Each time they sent a new unit back at no charge.
    THAT, my friend is Customer Service!

    I called RCBS because I broke a decapping pin in my .30-06 FL sizing die. Two days later I received a baggie in the mail with 5 decapping pins. No charge.
    THAT, my friend, is Customer Service!

    Kimber has much to learn about customer service. JMHO, of course.

    If one does some honest Google searches and reads the mixed bag of reviews and a handful or two of blog and forum complaints, I think he could go a long way toward assisting Kimber in improving their Customer Service. Customer Service takes a long time to gain a reputation. On the contrary, it only takes a few bad responses little to piss away a good CS reputation.

    My offer: I will sell you my 84M for $200 less than what I paid for it in 2006. (And it has a new barrel, too!) Want to put your money where your mouth is?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
    cdb1 likes this.
  9. cdb1

    cdb1 Member

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    I like Weatherby, CZ, Warne, Leupold, Meopta, Camera Land NY and FABARM - because my experiences with their Customer Service has been over the top. I don't care for DPMS, Beretta, Savage, Sig Sauer, Kimber and Mossberg for the opposite reason.
     
  10. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    I would agree about heat being an issue except that the horizontal fliers and split groups are not dependent on firing order. For example, in the split group, third picture down, shots 1,2, and 4 are on the right, shots 3 and 5 on the left. At this point I'm pretty sure it's bedding related. I noticed that the chamber portion of the barrel on my rifle was in contact with the stock, got a wild hair and sanded it down such that all contact was on the action and the barrel was free floated all the way forward... That was a mistake. I think that the Montana benefits from even contact under the chamber portion of the barrel, so I'm going to bed lug area and under the chamber with Devcon steel putty, probably next week.

    In the mean time I've dropped my action into a Hunter stock and am going to see how it shoots. I have to say, I like the hunter stock design, it's very stiff, has aluminum pillars and a solid DBM (which I prefer over blind mags). It also adds a few ounces over the Montana, which might actually be a good thing, I'll see how it shoots, maybe Friday. I did notice while cycling a bunch of dummy rounds through, that it is possible, although somewhat difficult, to load the magazine wrong. Holding the magazine with the case heads facing you, and the bullets facing away, the first round shifts to the right, the second to the left, and the third back to the right. I managed to stuff the rounds in opposite order once, and didn't realize what I'd done until I went to insert the mag into the rifle with the bolt closed and was surprised by how much more force it took to lock the mag in. Just an FYI.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  11. Casefull

    Casefull Member

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    I purchased a used Kimber Montana in 308. I was having the light primer strike once in a while with it and I thought, now I know why rifle was traded in. I take things apart when they don't work to see why. The previous owner must have adjusted the firing pin incorrectly and it was bent causing it to rub inside the bolt creating interference. I straightened the firing pin and have not had any more problems. I suppose this could have been a problem from the factory I don't know. You might want to check that out. It's an easy fix.
     
  12. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    So let me get this straight, you don't think that Kimber deserves any credit for installing, at no cost to you, a new barrel on a rifle that was purchased in 2005?

    Oh yes, five decapping pins is a huge cost for RCBS compared to a new barrel which costs a significant amount of money when you figure in the materials, fabrication, engraving, installation, finishing and test firing. Try call around and see how much a gunsmith would charge you to install a new barrel on a Kimber rifle.

    I have two ChargeMasters, one of which I had to have replaced about seven years ago at a cost of $40. Supposedly RCBS is no longer offering that "deal" on defective 1500 CMs. I will agree that RCBS has good CS but that doesn't change the fact that Kimber went above and beyond with your rifle. The fact that you don't accept that says more about you than it does about them.


    Ah yes ... the Honda transmission debacle.... way to go Honda for the outstanding service!!!

    2006 Honda Transmission Class Action Settlement
    In 2006 a class-action lawsuit was settled against Honda in the Superior Court of California for Alameda County. The suit claimed that Honda misled consumers by selling them vehicles with defective transmissions. Honda settled the case without ever admitting a defect and denied the charges.

    Owners covered in the lawsuit were given an extension of the transmission warranty to 93 months or 109,000 miles (whichever comes first), starting when the vehicle is first purchased or leased. According to court records, the plaintiff’s lawyers received nearly $5.5 million in addition to expenses, according to court records.

    The models covered were the 2000–1 Accord; 1999–2001 Odyssey; 2000–1 Prelude; 1999–2 Acura 3.2 TL and 2001–2 Acura 3.2 CL. The problem is most of those vehicles are well past the 93-month time limit and some owners are unhappy because they’re left to cover the bill when their transmissions fail outside the warranty extension, with repairs sometimes costing up to $4,000.
     
  13. Poper

    Poper Member

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    You can badmouth RCBS all you want, but the fact remains, my customer service experience with them has been only outstanding.
    Another item that failed was one of the plastic kinetic bullet pullers. It was at least 10 years old when the head shattered. They sent me a new one and didn't even ask for the remains of the old one to verify I had actually owned one.

    Back to your love of badmouthing anyone critical of Kimber's CS, or anything Kimber for that matter, it makes you look pretty small and it stains Kimber worse than it does you. You are a representative of that company and everything you do and say to anyone on this forum or anywhere else on the interwebs or in public is a direct reflection on Kimber and their management. It speaks VOLUMES about their judgement.
    Personally I could care less what you do. You haven't done a damn thing to impress me, but have attempted to insult me and demean me at every opportunity. A Kimber rep at his very finest! <yaaawwwnnnn...>

    I again ask for an explanation of why my 84M misfires with apparently light primer strikes that are a common complaint on numerous other venues.

    Again, I offer you the opportunity to buy back my POS Kimber 84M Select Grade with the optional Claro Walnut stock (that does not have a scratch on it) for $200 less than I paid for it in 2006.

    I again ask for a replacement firing spring pin. If you would send a stronger one, please be sure to include an invoice and I will be certain to send you payment. Then again, forget it. I'll take it to a local gunsmith and pay him to make me one. It will be faster.

    By the way. Honda never attempted to badmouth me or my wife in any way. They were 100% polite and helpful. A sharp contrast to the Kimber representatives I have interacted with.

    ETA: And $40 for a Chargemaster is a smoking deal! I'll buy 10 of them if I can get them for 40 bucks a pop!
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  14. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    Maybe you forget the details, maybe you have an agenda, maybe you're a sociopath or a pathological liar ... who knows, but you stated in an earlier thread that it took Kimber close to two years to replace the barrel on your rifle but that wasn't true. You still haven't given any credit to Kimber for replacing your barrel at no cost to you, a service that took about 5 weeks and a service that Kimber didn't have to perform. Regardless of anything else, why not be gracious about that at least?

    Read my earlier post. As I said, if there really is a light strike problem it's not hard to diagnose and correct, assuming that the headspace isn't massively out of spec. If troubleshooting is beyond you why not take it to a gunsmith and have them resolve it and then you sell it in good conscience.

    As for buying your Kimber, I don't buy fancy wood stocked rifles since I have no use for them. All of my Kimbers with the exception of the K22 have synthetic stocks and I much prefer a stainless barrel and action.

    I've owned Kimber rifles for close to six years now. My first two were purchased when I worked for Remington and I still have them and have no plans to part with them. Kimber offers everything I like in a hunting rifle from the way they shoot, carry, feel and look. Clearly you don't feel the same way so sell the damn thing and move on to what you do like. I had a terrible experience with a new Savage Weather Warrior and with Savage's customer service or lack of but I got over it.
     
  15. Poper

    Poper Member

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    ETA: I'll bet you paid a lot less for the Savage than I paid for the Kimber. Much easier to get over. Especially, since you are a class 3 FFL, it is reasonable to assume you did not pay full retail for the Savage, either.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  16. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    Wow. This turned into quite a whizzing contest.
     
  17. Poper

    Poper Member

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    Not hardly a pissing contest.
    I am willing to have civil discourse with anyone. Once called a sociopath and pathological liar, it appears the opportunity for an honest discussion has passed. But then we need to consider the source. Is this someone you want to do business with? Only you can answer that question.

    Personally, I had a beautiful rifle I had had to special order that had a difficult time shooting anything smaller than a 4" group. Kimber tested it and agreed so they rebarreled it. Understand, the rifle had no scratches in the metal finish nor the stock and it was a fine example of the Select Grade 84M. Now it is not, after someone at Kimber decided to rebarrel it without consideration to matching the finish of the barrel to that of the receiver. Now I have a rifle that misfires and looks like doggy-do to boot since Kimber's customer service had their hands on it. And I am supposed to kiss MCMXI's feet on this forum? I think not.

    It all comes down to 'caveat emptor'. Knowing then what I know now, I would have spent my money elsewhere. What would you do?
     
  18. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Anywho, back to the thread topic. I've actually only held two Kimbers, my Montana in 6.5 CM and a friend's Classic in .300 WM. The Classic was a very nice rifle, but I prefer stainless or cerakote and more utilitarian stock materials, so for me it was down to the Montana, the Hunter or a Howa Alpine. I really wanted a nice composite stock and a threaded barrel, so I got the Montana.

    Honestly, now that I've played with the Hunter more, I kinda of wish I had just gone that direction.... and saved $400-$500. The Hunter stock is comfortable, and very stiff, kind of like a Tikka stock, which I'm also fond of. The Montana stock is of much fancier construction with carbon fiber and whatnot, but it's not that much lighter, and it has a blind mag, over which I much prefer a decent DBM, or even a floor plate. A four round mag would be ideal, but on the other hand, I can't remember the last time I've fired more than two rounds at game, and Tikkas have been working quite well for me for a while.

    It all comes down to what you're looking for. In a hunting rifle I want stainless and a composite, or GOOD frp stock, a three position safety, or at least a two position that locks the bolt, sub 6.5 lb weight, and a decent trigger. There just aren't that many rifles out there that fit that bill under $800 street price:

    --Win M70 Ultimate Shadow SS: Had a pre-portugal, it was very accurate, but too heavy and sported a floppy stock

    --Win M70 EW: Had 3 they were more expensive, a tad bit heavy and the last two I had didn't shoot too hot

    --Weatherby Vanguard S2: Too heavy

    --Salvage 16:.... Decent requirements fit, Clunky bolts, personally I just don't like them

    --Howa Alpine: Nice rifle good requirements fit, a bit more expensive, I wish they were stainless and that the 6.5 had a 22" barrel

    --Tikka T3/x: Love them, check all my boxes except for a 3 position safety, but I can live with a locking two position

    --Browning X-Bolt Stainless Stalkers: Have one and really like it, way more accurate than it has any right to be, closer to $1k

    --Kimber Hunter: Checks all my boxes, although a 4 Rd mag would be nice, I'm sure there were space limitations to keeping the stock slim. CRF is a plus even though I don't hunt anything really requiring it.

    So for what I'm looking for in a hunting rifle, the Hunter seems like a good value. Of course, other people have very different ideas of what makes a good hunting rifle... I know this is true because there is no shortage of folks tromping through the woods with Rem 700's. ;)
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  19. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    I will just say that for every 1 positive or negative post on the internet about a company there at least 500 silent happy customers.
     
  20. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    I will try to be civil as long as certain parties agree to be honest about what has transpired.

    Gtscotty, I think you did a very good job of comparing the pros and cons of various hunting rifles and my experience and evaluation is similar to yours. Tikka makes a great rifle but they seem to have more felt recoil than an equivalent Kimber based on the few Tikkas that I've shot. The Hunter in .30-06 Sprg is a pussy cat compared to the Tikka T3 Light that I shot. Other than that they are really nice rifles that I would certainly consider buying or recommending. A girlfriend in Hawaii has a Tikka in .270 Win that she used to hunt with and she'd tried just about everything to make it more comfortable to shoot. I bought her a Mountain Ascent in .270 Win which weighs less and she loves it and doesn't use the Tikka anymore. She mentioned that even without the brake the Kimber is softer shooting for her and easier to carry. I made a post about that adventure back in 2014.

    I bought a Savage Weather warrior in 7mm-08 (at full retail from an online seller) and it was a disaster from the get go. The front and rear bridges had been ground incorrectly so it was impossible to mount a scope correctly. The other issue is that the barrel came with a 1:11 twist that just wouldn't shoot so I bought a McGowen 1:9 twist barrel for it before I'd figured out the bridge issue. I still have it since I can't sell it in good conscience but it's just a long paperweight these days. Bolt lift is ridiculous and it's just a clunky receiver with no aesthetic appeal. When I was working for Remington about five years ago I bought two Winchester M70 Extreme Weather rifles in .308 Win and .300 Win Mag. Neither shot particularly well, both exhibited very poor machining inside the ejection port and particularly the bolt races and they were heavy so I sold both. I really wanted to like them but they didn't impress. When I bought the .300 Win Mag I also bought a Kimber Montana in 300 WSM from the same store in AR. I still have the Kimber even though it's now chambered for .308 Win.


    No, I paid full MSRP from an online retailer. I was living in Hawaii at the time and wasn't working in the firearms industry. The Savage cost me around $850 and it's now a very long paperweight. Unlike Kimber, Savage didn't want anything to do with the rifle. They expected me to pay shipping both ways from Hawaii despite sending them detailed photos showing the issue on a new rifle. I will admit that I've been shaping the bridges to try to get them in the same plane and maybe one day I'll get it resolved and give it to some young kid up here assuming that it's good enough to give away. I will never buy another Savage nor recommend them to anyone but there are plenty of happy Savage owners out there. I don't pretend to know that my experience is typical of the Savage experience, but from where I sit, you're in a much better situation with your 84M than I am with my Weather Warrior.

    You don't have to kiss anyone's feet but I think you should be honest and have reasonable expectations. Kimber replaced the barrel for free on a 10-year old rifle. If you wanted the black oxide on all the metal to match then you should have asked for the entire rifle to be refinished ... but you would have had to pay for that. As for the light primer strikes, you haven't provided much information. I've told you what to look for and you have options so you can try to resolve it yourself, get an RMA from Kimber and return the rifle, take it to a gunsmith, sell it etc. I've shot many, many Kimber rifles, probably more than most on this forum. The only Kimber rifle I've ever had light primer strikes with was an Adirondack in .300 Blackout but that's a common problem with that cartridge in bolt action rifles since it's hard to control the case shoulder when making Blackout brass. We struggled with that problem when I was at Remington working as an ammunition R&D engineer. I developed a Blackout load for Remington so I'm very familiar with the problems with that case. As a handloader the shoulder issue isn't a problem so if I wanted/needed an Adirondack chambered in .300 Blackout I would buy one despite my experience with light strikes shooting factory ammunition.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  21. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    LOL. Okay.

    Funny as the model 16's I've handled check all the boxes you listed, and my model 10 and model 11 shoot fantastic. But as you say - some folks just don't like them which is a plenty good enough reason. I'll be the first to admit they could have done a much better job with the synthetic stock on the 16's. Just dropping that thin barrel into a standard model 11 stock wasn't cool. Looks sloppy IMO.

    Not many other options under $800 though. Tikka, the 16 Savage and the Kimber. I've never heard a bad thing about the Tikka, so I'll probably get one of those next since I already own two Savages.
     
    Poper likes this.
  22. jonc

    jonc Member

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    IMG_20170511_145232049.jpg IMG_20170511_145229438.jpg
     
  23. jonc

    jonc Member

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    Shot my hunter again today after glass bedding the stock. Didn't seem to change anything but it came with pillar bedding already so idk?
     
  24. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    jonc, what's your Hunter chambered in and what ammunition are you using?
     
  25. jonc

    jonc Member

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    280 ai and reloads. H4831 and nosler 175 lr accubond
     
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