Kimber, Cooper, or something else?

[Fast Frank]

So I'm looking at rifles on the internet, right?

I see some stuff that I would REALLY like to own.

But here's the problem. I've never even SEEN a Cooper rifle. I don't know anybody that has a rifle like that.

There's no way to rent one.

How am I supposed to know what's better and what's just over priced?

I know... I'll ask the guys on the forum for advice!

So, Is a Cooper better than a Kimber? Is there another rifle that should be considered?

Are these rifles really better than a CZ or something or are they just pretty?

I know some of you guys own and shoot these. Tell us what's up!

 

[SwampWolf]

QUOTE: "...Are these rifles really better than a CZ or something or are they just pretty?..."

Well, they are pretty. When you choose a Kimber or a Cooper over a rifle like the CZ or something, you are paying extra for the "pretty factor"-money well-spent for some, including me.

 

[Minnesota Wild]

What are your goals for the rifle? That's the question anybody who can answer your question needs to know.

Money spent on a rifle can go into many things; a nicer grade of wood for the stock, metal etching or better finish, or more precisely machined (or custom) actions, barrels, etc. For the most part a more expensive rifle will have greater precision, but that's not always true.

I don't have any experience with Cooper, but I've shot several Kimbers. They were very nice looking and all were shooters. They all were nicer in every respect then most of the CZs and off-the-shelf Remington 700s I have shot.

That said, the reason I ask about the goals of the rifle is that if you are looking for something that will maintain outstanding long range accuracy in all weather conditions a wood stock is not an ideal choice no matter how nice it is. Likewise, if you only plan to shoot to 200 yards and having a display piece is important to you, a custom built rifle that has a fully blueprinted action and Kreiger barrel is probably a waste of money. What you plan to do with the rifle will dictate whether the increased price is worth it.

 

[Hanshi]

My old Kimber of Oregon Custom Classic is about as fine as any .22LR that can be built.

 

[nettlle]

I have two Kimber rifles and have looked at several Cooper rifles. The Cooper's I have looked at seem to be a little nicer looking than the Kimbers. My Kimber's are nice though and I don't regret for a second buying them. They may or may not perform better than a CZ. I bought the Kimber's because they are very nice rifles and they do shoot a little better than the Remington 700's I have owned.

 

[PabloJ]

I looked over several Cooper rifles at LGS. Those were nicely made and come with some kind of factory target and warranty. The boys at Campfire Forums often talk of "Kimber Roulette". You may want to check with them before buying one.
I own Winchester from 1959 that came with lifetime of ammunition. If I even buy another rifle it will be something: light, accurate and EASY to operate. It will be European rifle in form of: Blaser, Heym, Sauer, Browning Maral,....I have zero interest in lifting and lowering bolt on bolt actioned rifle.

 

[jmr40]

Can't comment about Cooper. Kimber is a nice rifle, but the price premium is for an extremely lightweight rifle. Not necessarily a high quality rifle. For about the same money you'll get a better rifle from other brands. But if you want a rifle that can weigh under 6 lbs including optics a Kimber is by far the cheapest route to go. Anything else in that weight range will cost 2X to 3X what you'll pay for a Kimber.

They CAN be quite accurate. But very few people can shoot a 5 lb rifle as accurately as a 7-8 lb rifle. Most of the "Kimber Roulette" problems are folks who can't shoot a 5 lb rifle, not poor shooting rifles.

 

[Don-T]

FWIW

I have several Coopers and had two Kimbers, if that's a clue. All Coopers come with a one hole test target, of course its shot at 50 yds. They are guaranteed to shoot half inch groups at 100 yds for center fire rifles and half inch at 50 yds for rimfires. All mine easily shoot better than that with handloads. My Kimbers may have been luck of the draw but had grabby bolts and could not be counted on to hold an inch at 100 yds no matter what I fed them. Fit and finish on the Coopers is considerably superior. Of course Coopers cost more too. For me it's worth it.

 

[nettlle]

Both of my Kimber's are Clackamas rifles. I haven't tried the Kimber's since they moved.

 

[mshootnit]

You know how the internet works. 1000 people buy french fries in a day at a food joint. One person out of a thousand gets a burned fry then posts it so it gets 1000 views. All of a sudden all the fries are supposed to be bad even though 99.9% are actually fine.

I only have experience with one Kimber. So far very pleased.

 

[bullzeye8]

I don't have one but besides being prettier they also come with a 1/2" accuracy guarantee. Your cheaper rifles will not do that consistently. This means it has a better barrel, and better fit between all the components and also probably has a better trigger. If you have the money I say it is worth it but if you don't have the money one of the less expensive ones will serve you fine.

 

[Llama Bob]

Kimber's mountain rifles are at least interesting. Cooper has yet to make a single rifle I have any desire to own whatsoever. They have a less desirable action than my Winchesters and Brownings, cost more, and the accuracy guarantee doesn't suggest any likely accuracy advantage, and certainly no usable improvement.

<edit>

 

[9mmepiphany]

I guess it was too much to hope the drift would stop on it's own.

I'm going to edit or delete the OT sections.

If you'd like to continue discussing it, please start another thread

 

[Coal Dragger]

I own 2 Coopers, my experience has been positive over all.

The first one I acquired is a Model 52 Jackson Hunter in .280 Ackley Improved. This one did have to go back to get a new barrel, the original barrel had some damage to the crown area during bead blasting when it appears the plug in the muzzle protecting the crown and rifling must have been a bit loose. So the interior of the bore near the crown was bead blasted. Cooper fixed this free of charge, as would be expected, and to ensure no repeat of this delivered the rifle back to me with a highly polished muzzle with not a hint of any bead blasting anywhere near the crown of that barrel thank you very much. The rifle shoots very very well for me with a preference for hand loads. The only factory ammo I've put through it is Nosler Trophy Grade 140gr Accubonds and they tend to group about 3/4" at 100 yards. Some of my better hand loads have turned in groups at or below 1/2" at that distance. I've not found a bullet yet that can't be made to shoot at least 3/4" at 100 yards in that barrel, so it is very consistent. This rifle doesn't have a wood stock so fit and finish is more subjective here but the bedding job is nicely done, the metal is well finished, and the fiberglass stock is nicely painted and textured. My only minor complaint is that this particular action has a blade style ejector installed at just the right angle to occasionally launch a case out in such a way that the case neck hits the windage cap on the scope. Only happens on the last round fired from the magazine, and is still clears the action. Not really a big deal, and only happens when you really really run the bolt hard.

The second Cooper is a Model 57 in .22LR in the now discontinued laminated stock with a sporter weight barrel. I love this rifle. I can literally come up with no complaints about it other than .22LR ammo isn't free. I guess if forced to find fault... the chamber is tight since it is cut as a true match chamber and sometimes copper plated bullets with no lube on them stick in the chamber and will not extract. The bullet is seated into the rifling, and the copper coating with no lube won't release. Lead ammo, particularly match grade ammo with soft waxy lube doesn't display this issue. Fired cases no matter the bullet type extract and eject just fine. Tight match chambers don't perform as well with bulk ammo, I knew this going in and have experienced similar performance with other tight chambers that seat bullets into the rifling. The upside to this is that it is very consistent accuracy wise with half way decent ammo, a .22 rifle that will put 5 rounds of CCI Velocitors (my favorite small game .22LR ammo) into just over 1/2" at 50 yards is doing very well in my book. It does even better with true match ammo, Lapua Midas has met their accuracy guarantee for me and was the ammo they tested with.

Both rifles have excellent triggers, nice metal work, and both shoot extremely well. You get what you pay for.

 

[Fast Frank]

Thanks for the input, guys.

As for the question about what my goals are for the rifle, well at the present time I have none.

As I stated in my first post, I had been looking at rifles online and really liking what I was seeing.

Going by the responses I see above an expensive rifle might be a little like an expensive car. It seems like maybe the beauty is more than just a pretty finish.

I guess the next question I need to ask myself is would I be happier with one really nice rifle or two "regular" ones...



Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk

 

[Sniper66]

Don't have both, but do have a Kimber 84M .204 with fluted barrel. Beautiful gun and many dead prairie dogs would say they wished it wasn't so accurate. I have several varmint rifles and my Kimber is the best light weight model. i have a Remington 700 VSF .223 that is heavier and slightly more accurate, but not by much. My goal is to get a Cooper .223 one of these days.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

Frank, just up the road from you is Precision Barrel Work

http://www.precisionbarrelwork.com/contact_customgunsmith.htm

if I lived that close, I'd go out of curiosity. Even if I didn't have a rifle barreled by them

 

[valnar]

Since you asked for "something else", I'd say look at Sako.

 

[dubbleA]

I have several of both, The wood, fit/finish and accuracy are excellent with all of them.

Recently built my daughter a 22-250 off a M22 action and its a real hammer.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Is Cooper selling actions now?

 

[CraigC]

Are these rifles really better than a CZ or something or are they just pretty?

I hate the use of the word "pretty", as it is almost universally meant as condescending and it undercuts the value. What you're paying for is higher quality materials, fit, finish and upgraded wood. All of which cost money. You're not going to buy a Cooper and have things like machine marks, finish flaws, machine pressed checkering, poor wood to metal fit or one that shoots patterns. These things aren't important to everyone and fewer still are willing to pay for it. For those who care about such details, they are well worth the money.

Cooper has yet to make a single rifle I have any desire to own whatsoever. They have a less desirable action than my Winchesters and Brownings, cost more, and the accuracy guarantee doesn't suggest any likely accuracy advantage, and certainly no usable improvement.

You've obviously never seen their test targets. Local shop has a dozen Coopers in various chamberings and all the test target groups are sickeningly tiny.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Whenever I'm tempted to buy a Cooper, I ask myself, "Do you REALLY want to contribute to left wing politicians?"

 

[CraigC]

That dude is long gone from Cooper.

Plus I figger the money I send the NRA more than makes up for it.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

That dude is long gone from Cooper.

No longer in management, but still a major stock holder. Makes money off every Cooper sold.

 

[Llama Bob]

I hate the use of the word "pretty", as it is almost universally meant as condescending and it undercuts the value. What you're paying for is higher quality materials, fit, finish and upgraded wood. All of which cost money. You're not going to buy a Cooper and have things like machine marks, finish flaws, machine pressed checkering, poor wood to metal fit or one that shoots patterns. These things aren't important to everyone and fewer still are willing to pay for it. For those who care about such details, they are well worth the money.



You've obviously never seen their test targets. Local shop has a dozen Coopers in various chamberings and all the test target groups are sickeningly tiny.

Oh, I've seen their test targets. I have no problem shooting equivalent groups with my otherwise far superior Winchesters. So what possible reason would I have for wanting a Cooper?

In any case, they would have to completely replace all people involved (employees and owners) in their leftist politics before I would consider giving them a cent.