KT Sub2000 Gen 2 on Gunbroker
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Panzerschwein
member
I personally don't see the draw to mounting optics on a Sub 2K.
It often creates issues with folding the gun, and for the effective range of the 9mm cartridge, iron sights are just fine and especially on the new Sub 2K, are plenty precise. Plus you add more weight and bulk to the system, which the Sub 2K is not about.
JMHO.
YMMV.
It often creates issues with folding the gun, and for the effective range of the 9mm cartridge, iron sights are just fine and especially on the new Sub 2K, are plenty precise. Plus you add more weight and bulk to the system, which the Sub 2K is not about.
JMHO.
YMMV.
I agree. The only advantage of a sub 2K is it is small, light, portable and can use same mags you use for your Glock. After you shoot one some you will discover this advantages are not as important as you thought they would be and you will want to get a real rifle.
Captains1911
Member
That's kind of like saying there is no need to mount a red dot or similar on a SMG, yet that is very common. I just like shooting red dots better, and so to me it makes sense, especially if I can retain the ability to fold the gun at the same time.
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well you are officially the first person I've come across who did not enjoy the Sub2000....I'm not quite sure why you felt the need to post this in the sub2k thread without relaying any specific reasons or gripes...a bit odd but ok...
wait, wait....the ONLY advantages are that it's small, light, portable and can use the same mags from your Glock??? lets pretend you're right and those are its *only* advantages....plenty of people would give an arm and a leg to have those features on their "rifles". i like how you make it sound like its some minor thing....its obviously no small feat and those are some of the biggest selling points for the Sub2000.
But really your first mistake is trying to compare a S2K with a rifle in the first place....the only thing this gun has in common with rifles is the barrel length...its truly an apples to oranges comparison. Nobody in here is confusing a Sub2000 with an AR-15/etc....it would be much more appropriate(and credible...) to compare the S2K with something like an MPx or a Scorpion.
Clearly there is a place for pistol caliber SMGs/Carbines and its not just in gun sales/marketing....there is an obvious niche usage for these sort of guns; mostly in fairly close quarter situations where a pistol might be underwhelming, and yet a rifle might be undesirable for a slew of reasons.
This is not even taking into account the versatility of the Sub2000 which IMO, is another reason for its success and popularity. Oh btw, you do realize this gun has a MSRP of just $500 right?
As far as mounting optics/accessories....like I said before, the great thing about starting with such a lightweight platform is that you can add a bunch of accessories without making the gun heavy. Even if you added 2 lbs of accessories to a sub2000 you'd only be looking at a 6.25 lbs gun....
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I own a Sub 2K. I don't like shooting it. The metal tube for a stock is not comfortable. I was especially impressed by the fact that Kel Tec managed to build a 9mm carbine with more recoil than an AR.
The fact that it is small, portable, and uses Glock magazines is to me far outweighed by the fact that it is not pleasant to shoot, not is it really any more accurate than a handgun in the first place.
I happen to like 9mm carbines pretty good. My go-to carbine for HD is a Colt 9mm AR. Its a pleasure to shoot. The Kel Tec is not. If you like yours, I am glad. I don't like mine and wish I didn't own it.
The fact that it is small, portable, and uses Glock magazines is to me far outweighed by the fact that it is not pleasant to shoot, not is it really any more accurate than a handgun in the first place.
I happen to like 9mm carbines pretty good. My go-to carbine for HD is a Colt 9mm AR. Its a pleasure to shoot. The Kel Tec is not. If you like yours, I am glad. I don't like mine and wish I didn't own it.
Panzerschwein
member
Can your Colt 9mm fold in half to an overall package of 16.25"?
I didn't think so.
What the S2K gives up in shootability, it gains in concealability and handiness. And to suggest that it is as easy to hit with a handgun as it is with a carbine is folly. It is certainly much easier to gain repeated hits at range with the carbine, and with the increased velocity and resultant flatter shooting due to increased velocity, greater effect on target is gained with the carbine.
I didn't think so.
What the S2K gives up in shootability, it gains in concealability and handiness. And to suggest that it is as easy to hit with a handgun as it is with a carbine is folly. It is certainly much easier to gain repeated hits at range with the carbine, and with the increased velocity and resultant flatter shooting due to increased velocity, greater effect on target is gained with the carbine.
yeah i'm sorry you dont like your Sub2000, like I said your the first person I've met who has enough of a problem with the stock/bolt-tube setup that they couldn't enjoy the gun....its certainly not the most comfortable gun ive fired but its not that bad.
Don't forget you can get a bolt tube cover from 2-3 different places although I don't think its a perfect solution. I do expect more and more accessories for the Gen2 in the future and have a feeling we will see the issue addressed. we def need something with an elevated cheek pad/rest.
however to say the gun isnt much more accurate than a pistol is sort of comical. either way you're entitled to your opinion and someone will still GLADLY take that unwanted sub2000 off your hands
Don't forget you can get a bolt tube cover from 2-3 different places although I don't think its a perfect solution. I do expect more and more accessories for the Gen2 in the future and have a feeling we will see the issue addressed. we def need something with an elevated cheek pad/rest.
however to say the gun isnt much more accurate than a pistol is sort of comical. either way you're entitled to your opinion and someone will still GLADLY take that unwanted sub2000 off your hands
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Robbins290
Member
Unpleasant to shoot? Are you sure we are talking about the same gun? My gen2 is very pleasant too shoot. And my 16 year old daughter liked it soo much, i have to get another one.
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Artofgolf
Member
The reviews are good with the Nutnfancy testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0yS68BzLz0
Published on Oct 4, 2015
The 2nd Gen Sub 2000 is now 50% more awesome. Not that Gen 1 Sub 2000 was broke. They are still superb: accurate, reliable, fun, compact, and super light. The Gen 2 inherits all that and makes improvements as suggested by many end users including TNP crew. Here you will see it in action in several outings in the Project and we once again love the design.
Panzerschwein
member
I want one SO BAD! But all the ones on Gun Broker are going for MSRP or like maybe $5 less if you are lucky.
Also, I have a Glock 19 and would prefer to be able to use 15 round G19 mags in the gun. I know Kel Tec offered the Gen 1 S2K in G19 format, but not sure if they will offer the Gen 2 that way as well.
I actually emailed them a couple days ago asking this question. I'll let everyone know of their response!
Also, I have a Glock 19 and would prefer to be able to use 15 round G19 mags in the gun. I know Kel Tec offered the Gen 1 S2K in G19 format, but not sure if they will offer the Gen 2 that way as well.
I actually emailed them a couple days ago asking this question. I'll let everyone know of their response!
Cooldill-
MSRP is pretty much the going rate for these guns....in my area LGS/gun shows have them marked $50-$100 above MSRP and they are pretty firm. If you find them brand new for cheaper, it will almost always be a Gen 1 model or at best, a .40 model Gen2.
of course you can look around and add your name to a "list" for a better price, but from what I've gathered retailers/LGS are not really receiving further inventory of S2KG2s....almost seems like Kel-Tec is purposely spreading out their stock this time around. I think I even saw a video on youtube where a Kel-Tec employee said they discussed the shortage/third party poaching of their guns and basically said they would be tackling the issue from several different angles. This might be why its so much easier to find the Gen2s at local brick and mortar stores.
But for now, I have a feeling that anyone who can actually acquire a S2K for $399 is would probably just buying them all up and listing them on GunBrokers one at a time for some quick profit.
I think asking Kel-Tec about the G19 version is your best bet...the only issue I could see is that the grip frame is already pretty short/stubby on the Gen2s, not sure I'd be happy with an even shorter grip frame. but hey while you're in contact with them, maybe you can ask where they've been sending their latest batches of Sub2000s???
MSRP is pretty much the going rate for these guns....in my area LGS/gun shows have them marked $50-$100 above MSRP and they are pretty firm. If you find them brand new for cheaper, it will almost always be a Gen 1 model or at best, a .40 model Gen2.
of course you can look around and add your name to a "list" for a better price, but from what I've gathered retailers/LGS are not really receiving further inventory of S2KG2s....almost seems like Kel-Tec is purposely spreading out their stock this time around. I think I even saw a video on youtube where a Kel-Tec employee said they discussed the shortage/third party poaching of their guns and basically said they would be tackling the issue from several different angles. This might be why its so much easier to find the Gen2s at local brick and mortar stores.
But for now, I have a feeling that anyone who can actually acquire a S2K for $399 is would probably just buying them all up and listing them on GunBrokers one at a time for some quick profit.
I think asking Kel-Tec about the G19 version is your best bet...the only issue I could see is that the grip frame is already pretty short/stubby on the Gen2s, not sure I'd be happy with an even shorter grip frame. but hey while you're in contact with them, maybe you can ask where they've been sending their latest batches of Sub2000s???
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Captains1911
Member
Or just buy 3 to 5 (or more) 33rd Glock factory mags.If it weren't for these mags I probably wouldn't be as attracted to the Sub2k. Plus, they are compatible with your G19. G17 mags are also compatible with your G19, in which Magpul is now making as well. Bottom line is there are so many inexpensive 9mm Glock mag options, IMO it's not worth holding out for a G19 Sub2k.
A friend of mine just bought a used Gen 1 Sub2000. I was able to shoot it at the range, and it was accurate, and reliable. The only thing I had to get used to was how short the stock was, so my cheek was getting hit by the receiver when recoiling. I had to adjust my hold, and it was OK, but I don't think I could get used to the ultra short, LOP, but I do have long arms.
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Artofgolf
Member
The Gen 2 model has been redesigned to provide three length adjustments in the stock
(click on image to expand)I have long arms as well; with the addition of the Magpul pad, it provided an extra 3/4" & it fits for me at maximum extension
yeah funny thing is that after hearing a bunch of complaints about the Sub2000's stock and LOP(particularly from taller/longer individuals)....I actually ended up preferring the shortest setting on my Gen2. Then again I'm only 5'8 with some t-rex style arms lol.
this is where third party manufacturer's REALLY need to step up....there is no obvious reason why someone couldn't design a fully adjustable stock with a comfortable, slightly elevated cheek rest/pad area that. those little padded bolt-tube sleeves are a nice touch but simply don't do enough....someone needs to make a complete aftermarket stock assembly like(see the picture posted above). either have it hollowed out so the gun can still fold flush and lock up, or design it with a piece that either moves/rotates out of the way for folding purposes, or maybe just something you can quickly and securely attach AFTER unfolding the gun.
I could draw some sort of a crude sketch to better flesh out my idea, but I think those of you with a Sub2k will understand what I am attempting to describe. Maybe we should contact Tandemkross or Tacticool.
this is where third party manufacturer's REALLY need to step up....there is no obvious reason why someone couldn't design a fully adjustable stock with a comfortable, slightly elevated cheek rest/pad area that. those little padded bolt-tube sleeves are a nice touch but simply don't do enough....someone needs to make a complete aftermarket stock assembly like(see the picture posted above). either have it hollowed out so the gun can still fold flush and lock up, or design it with a piece that either moves/rotates out of the way for folding purposes, or maybe just something you can quickly and securely attach AFTER unfolding the gun.
I could draw some sort of a crude sketch to better flesh out my idea, but I think those of you with a Sub2k will understand what I am attempting to describe. Maybe we should contact Tandemkross or Tacticool.
Maybe we should market folding versions of all sorts of things that up until now no one knew needed to fold. You know, a folding baseball bat, folding TV, maybe a folding motorcycle or something
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Artofgolf
Member
There is one vendor on GunBroker that offers some accessories for the S2K. He uses the vendor name earley.
I placed an order for a replacement rear sight; will report back when installed + tested
Captains1911
Member
The ability to carry a 16" carbine and five 33rd magazines in a laptop bag, adds a level of discreetness that is hard to find elsewhere. That is the appeal to the folding rifle concept. It's really not as difficult of a concept to grasp as some people are implying.Maybe we should market folding versions of all sorts of things that up until now no one knew needed to fold. You know, a folding baseball bat, folding TV, maybe a folding motorcycle or something
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Artofgolf
Member
That's sort of like saying that the folding baseball bat lets you conveniently store it in a kangaroo pouch. It's true, so to speak, but WHY? What precisely am I supposed to do with this laptop bag of not-as-of-yet functional weaponry?
Captains1911
Member
Actually it's not like that at all, because there isn't a any practical advantage I can think of for storing and transporting a baseball bat in that fashion. However, there is a very practical advantage to being able to carry a small, completely unsuspicious looking case that contains a weapon with greater capabilities than a handgun, and that takes literally 2 to 3 seconds to unfold and work the action to deploy. Whether it's to take on road trips, to work, or wherever, the applications are many more than a few. People live in different environments an under different circumstances; people's situations are not the same. If you don't understand this, I'm sorry, I don't know how else to explain it you.
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There have been take down versions of a number of traditional firearms. Why do they sell those? Why do people buy them?
Sounds like people have found uses for rifles that fold or break down for decades.
For me, it just fits in with the truck gun concept. I can stash a folded sub2000 and mags in a gym bag and tuck it in under the seat or in a tool box. In addition, it makes it easy to stash around the house if that is what you want as well.
There have always been been always been guns available that I didn't see any use for myself. I don't know why you are arguing so hard against this one.
Sounds like people have found uses for rifles that fold or break down for decades.
For me, it just fits in with the truck gun concept. I can stash a folded sub2000 and mags in a gym bag and tuck it in under the seat or in a tool box. In addition, it makes it easy to stash around the house if that is what you want as well.
There have always been been always been guns available that I didn't see any use for myself. I don't know why you are arguing so hard against this one.
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