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Kyoto Animation - A hard lesson in why strong gun laws don't work

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by M5-Shogun, Jul 19, 2019.

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  1. M5-Shogun

    M5-Shogun Member

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    I don't normally try to jump on tragic events, but as a huge fan of Japanese culture, and the fact that one of my friends got killed in the blaze (went to college with him) I feel this is personal.

    Most Japanese people, are pretty similar in terms of their view of guns to American liberals. But as I was listening to my friend's brother crying when he called me the other day to tell me what happened, I felt it was a real hard lesson.

    People will use any object, whether that be a gas can and a match, a knife or a gun to commit mass killing if they think they can get away with it. Or Sarin. Etc. All taking away guns really does is drive people to do crazier alternatives.

    Not even most police units in Japan are armed, and they have little firearms training. It's horrible though, as anyone standing by could have shot the guy and helped stop him from burning the place down. But Japanese people are a good example of what happens when you get a population near totally disarmed:

    Molesters on trains that necessitate separate cars for women during peak hours
    Killers, even children, who go great lengths to commit grisly acts of murder
    People who do not know how to handle crisis management, and know no form of self defense

    And 30 dead people, and a burned animation studio. My prayers are with the families of the dead.

    Too bad nobody will learn the lesson. It feels terrible to watch this crap happen over and over.
     
  2. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    May they rest in peace, and the killer fry.
     
  3. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    If anything at all good comes from this, is furthers our counter-argument that the insane and evil do not need "assault rifles" to commit mass murder. If they want to kill a whole bunch of people, they will find a way, and only extremely competent (or lucky) police intelligence OR an armed resistor in the right place and time can actually stop them.

    As if Timothy McVeigh, the French truck attacks, and the 911 hijackers didnt provide enough evidence already- no guns used. But then, the real gun control movement isnt about gun control, its about people control.

    Sorry to hear about your friend. I will pray for his family.
     
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  4. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    The powers that run this country want a passive, helpless populace, and are willing to let the criminals kill a few, so the leadership can easily maintain their control of the masses. Anti gun propaganda is not about safety, it is about control.
     
  5. Col. Harrumph

    Col. Harrumph Member

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    I don't remember now, prolly 40 years since he said it; nor do I remember which Democrat congressman it was who said, "I don't care about crime. I just want to ban guns."

    At least he was being honest. That's something.
     
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  6. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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  7. jstert

    jstert Member

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    i worked in japan for 11 years. its people have been overwhelmingly controlled, repressed subjects for centuries. its violent crime situation probably matches most normal, middle class, white suburbs in the u.s. yet violence does occur in japan: knives, fire, poison gas, bullying. property crime is rare, and the streets are safe and orderly. yet history shows that when the japanese people are armed and unleashed outside of their country they can certainly wreak unimaginably cruel havoc on anyone in their path. it’s never the tool, it’s the soul.
     
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  8. HB

    HB Member

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    Gun control clearly works. How many mass shootings have happened in Japan compared to the US?

    Its not that it doesnt work... its that its unconstitutional, castrates a populace, and gives tyrants and the 1% that much more control.
     
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  9. Dan Forrester

    Dan Forrester Member

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    I don’t really think gun control either works or doesn’t work. I think it’s largely irrelevant. You could flood Japan with guns and I don’t thing the crime rate would budge much at all. With all the guns available to US citizens of Japanese descent here in the US how often do they commit any crimes? Pretty rarely.

    High average IQ, high trust and ethnic homogeneity is what makes Japan what it is. Japan is so different from the US than any type of comparison with the US is completely pointless.

    Dan
     
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  10. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    Japan has a very different culture & history than America. Edged weapons like knives and swords figure much more significantly in their culture than American culture.
    Even in WW2 they maintained their fidelity to this with their "Banzai charges." Yes, they did have pistols, rifles and machineguns. Some of them were pretty [email protected] But their blade weapons were alway high quality.
    But even the best sword isn't very effective against an American soldier armed with a Thompson, M-1 carbine or Garand.

    Today there's a company called Miroku which makes superb versions of Winchester and Browning guns for commercial export. But they remain a traditional people, as evidenced by their harsh gun laws.

    Their murder rate is lower than ours, but it is there, and the Yakuza is still around. The suicide rate in Japan is greater than ours, though. It usually is not done with guns as they have few, but still they have access to knives, and also, drugs.
     
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  11. Curator

    Curator Member

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    In Japan, even edged weapons such as swords are tightly regulated. Nonetheless, stabbings occur, nd even the occasional political assassination. They have a very low crime rate because they have an excellent school system, a culture of respect for elders and authority, and most importantly a homogeneous population with very few "minorities." Immigration to Japan is extremely difficult as is getting a work visa-- You have to have a much needed skill or valuable contacts. They took zero "boat people" from Viet Nam during that crisis.
     
  12. M5-Shogun

    M5-Shogun Member

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    Japan is a beautiful country and I've visited it several times. The language is wonderful too. The people are wonderful and we'll and for someone who also comes from a culture where elders are respected I felt an immediate connection from a young age.

    But yeah, guns in Japan wouldn't change much, contrary to the rather controlling nature of the ruling party. The only party that promotes guns, however, also tried to erase the "Rape of Nanjing" (It's not Nanking, that's based on a mistranslation) from history books and has a history of other historical revisionism. I won't support that.

    Sadly the culture there is much set in its ways so this is unlikely to change. A Kanto police officer recently did an interview in Japanese and he basically said "Yeah the less guns out there the easier it is for us. Better pick up your loose shells too, that's negligence!"

    For those praying for my friend, I thank you. It's quite awful. I sent his widow a considerable amount of money so she could make it through the next few months. I was under no obligation to, but he was a bright young man and always was there for a late night study session in college surrounded by beer and pizza.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
  13. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    Do the Japanese even have a death penalty?
     
  14. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    They do. Google it. The argument that gun control won't work because then there will be fires is really going to be irrelevant in RKBA debates. You need to discuss the positive benefits of the RKBA rather than discussing the various plans of nuts.
     
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  15. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    Yes. I understand the .... condemned .... is imprisoned until the day of execution. He isn't told when that day is; at some apparently random day, his prison door is opened and he's told the time has arrived and he's led off to his execution. Odd by our standards, but the Japanese apparently believe it's more merciful than having a specified day, and having the condemned do a mental countdown.
     
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  16. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    I think you are wrong in this case. No gun was used. How can you say gun control didn't work?

    Never once has anybody anywhere suggested that gun control would create a utopian society without violence.

    Of course, you could argue that murder laws don't work because of all the people murdered. You could argue that arson laws don't work because it was done with arson. In fact, you could argue that any law ever violated was a law that failed to work. Laws have never stopped anybody that wanted to break them, but they do set forth punishments for being broken.
     
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  17. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    We don't have laws because we believe that they will create utopia, or everyone will obey them without fail. We have them so we can have an orderly judicial system, where a non-emotionally involved police force will investigate crimes objectively, arrest the suspect in a hopefully orderly fashion, and Lawyers and a judicial system to apply in a reasoned and objective fashion, where the suspects' rights can be properly observed, the truth found, and justice levied.
    It certainly isn't perfect and human perfidy is never far away from Lady Justice.
    But, the alternative is lynch mobs, vigilante commitees, star chambers, drum head trials, and chaos.

    We also have a Constitution and Bill of Rights, intended to protect our God-given rights.
     
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  18. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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    When Japan was hit with the tsunami a few years ago and the nuclear reactors were damaged the Japanese people just started cleaning up. My wife asked "why don't they have riots and looting like we would have"? I told her "just send a ship load of the fine folks from the New Orleans area and by noon there will be riots, looting and killing in the streets". Different culture. Different people.
     
  19. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Maybe not, but the antigun crowds here proclaim that banning this and seizing that will "protect our kids" or "stop the killing in the streets" or "prevent workplace violence," with the underlying implication that psychotic teenagers, fatherless gangbangers, and disgruntled comic book writers will all just get along.

    Before there were guns, there was no gun violence- but there sure as hell was violence. Indeed, the overall murder and assault rate in countries that have instituted draconian disarmament laws has largely stayed the same- indicating that the problem is the people and their relative level of cultural corruption, not the tools.

    This is where the arguments of gun control advocates fall flat. Gun control may work, but NOT in the way that they cry about in front of the cameras. That is just propogandist political capitol for their power-broker backers- and they are either too stupid to realize they are being used, or just dont care.
     
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  20. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    I was an Army brat and when I was a kid and service families lived all over the world back then... Many families, like my own, tried to live "on the economy" in whatever housing they could rent - until government quarters became available... I was around five when we went to Japan (Korean war era...) as my Dad was stationed at Yokohama.. We lived in a traditional japanese house until we moved into to government housing and I learned at a very early age how vulnerable those wooden structures were to any fire... Japanese culture back then had a profound respect for any kind of fire since, once started, whole neighborhoods could be lost.

    I imagine that to this day using fire as a means of killing was a terrifying event for that entire country... Has anyone learned of a motive for the attack?
     
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  21. Robert

    Robert Administrator Staff Member

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    I am truly sorry for your loss, but we are struggling to stay on topic.
     
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