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laid down the law at the range today

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by atek3, Oct 21, 2006.

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  1. atek3

    atek3 Member

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    so I shoot at a private club, I mainly practice ipsc in the bay with steel. My friend brought a highpoint 9mm carbine and we were banging away on the steel, cool right. Some guy rolls up with a tacticool LMT AR-15 w/ an eotech, tres cool right? Until he fires twice and smacks a pistol sihouette target...

    Now mind you I'm a new member and I'm young, but if I don't lay down the law who will, right? So I go over and say, "is that steel rifle rated?"

    "I don't know, probably"

    "well lets go down and check it out, because if it is I'll be able to play with my FAL on this line"

    So we walk the 50 yards to the steel and it's pretty pockmarked from other rifle using .....'s and sure enough two new M193 shaped indentations...

    "Those are yours I do believe"

    "oh well, guess I'll be shooting paper"

    I helped him sight in his eotech, (it was about a 2 ft off at 50 yards).

    and I take off.

    I wonder if he immediately started banging away on the steel after I left...

    atek3
     
  2. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Member

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    At my club, if someone shoots at something he isn't supposed to shoot - there are signs explaining the rules - he is asked to leave and he soon becomes a former member.

    Pilgrim
     
  3. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    yeah, thats the best way to get people to enjoy the sport of shooting, kick them out for shooting the wrong target. :rolleyes:

    If they are not putting someones life at risk give the guy a break and explain to him what he is doing wrong and give him a chance to correct his mistakes
     
  4. atek3

    atek3 Member

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    i'm thinking hanzo's more my style.

    I invited the guy to a carbine match so he can learn to shoot his AR like it's meant to be shot.

    atek3
     
  5. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    new shooters such as myself appreciate guys like you atek, I bet the guy learned his lesson and didnt shoot that target anymore.
     
  6. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Guy makes a mistake and you help him out. Seems like the right thing to do to me.

    Guy does the same thing a second time it's no mistake, help him to leave. Seems like the right thing to do.

    You done good atek3.
     
  7. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    Handled well.
     
  8. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Shootin' Steel

    At my range, the rules are clear. Get caught hittin' a club-owned steel target with a centerfire rifle, and your membership is history, unless you provide your own steel targets. Get caught by a club officer in the falling plate bay with a loaded centerfire rifle...whether he sees you hit one or not...same deal.

    Why?

    The steel is there for pistol shooters, and not rated for rifle rounds. It costs the club money and time to replace damaged targets, and when the plate shooters roll in for an awaited match...and find that their plates are full of holes or beaten into a concave shape...they tend to be a little irate. Priced any 5/8ths boiler plate cut to a specific size and shape lately? Multiply the cost of one plate times the dozens that will be shot all to Helen Gone if the slob shooters are given free reign...not to mention some of the shooters who drive for 2 or 3 hours to participate...and the rule starts to make more sense.
    The welds break often enough from repeated hits with pistol rounds.

    They do allow centerfire rifle for steel on the rifle range on a few conditions.
    That the range is 100 yards or more...That the bullets are hard-cast lead...That the velocity is 2,000 fps or less...and that the bullet weight is 300 grains or less...and be prepared to have your ammo chronographed and/or pulled apart and the bullet weight checked on a scale. The only exception is to provide your own steel.

    Simple rules to follow.
     
  9. atek3

    atek3 Member

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    if this was a pristine plate I can see where you're coming from but the guy fired ding number 101 and 102...

    atek3
     
  10. antsi

    antsi Member

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    It was diplomatic of you to ask if the guy knew whether it was OK to shoot the steel target, then suggest going to find out.

    If the guy knew he was doing wrong, he's a jerk, but he could simply have been ignorant.

    The way you handled the situation served to correct the behavior problem, but also let the guy save face.
     
  11. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    1911 Tuner

    why not give the guy a chance to pay for the target he damaged instead of kicking him out?

    Everyone talks about how they don't see as many younger people shooting as they should....maybe it is because of situations such as the one you described
     
  12. donkee

    donkee Member

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    At the club I belong to, we have steels with .223 sized holes through them, the barricades have been used for target stands, etc. The rules are laid down when you become a member. It's not like the rules are strict and unfair, just common sense. I like helping the new guy, but having a stupid guy running loose............
     
  13. Cacique500

    Cacique500 Member

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    ...and that's why I bring my own steel target to the range...

    Other than walking it and the stand out to 200 yards, it's worked out pretty well.
     
  14. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Steel

    Hanzo asked:

    >why not give the guy a chance to pay for the target he damaged instead of kicking him out?<
    *************

    Because new members are given a copy of the club rules, and must sign an agreement to abide by those rules before membership is approved...and because there are signs with 4-inch lettering clearly posted in every pistol bay, and on the rifle ranges...so it's not like they're unaware of it. Like a speed limit sign that puts the limit at 65. Get clocked at 85, and you get a pink slip.
     
  15. AirForceShooter

    AirForceShooter Member

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    I'm with Tuner on this one.
    We need young shooters more than they need us.
    We were all young, stupid and knew it all once. Try to remember how it felt the first time you had a gun in your hands at a range. You would shoot anything that stood still.
    Cut him some slack.
    Atek, you done good.

    AFS
     
  16. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I like the point about the area being posted.

    I'll agree that if the area is clearly posted that there is no excuse and the offense becomes willful and warrants ejection. I would advise that requiring them to pay for a plate and a 30 day ban with a 90 day probationary return would serve better than having their membership revoked.
     
  17. dfaugh

    dfaugh Member

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    Sounds like you did OK to me...You coulda got all up in his face, for disobeying the rules, but you helped him understand. We all have to understand that there are "rookies" out there, and teach safety as best we can. There's some real idiots that'll never learn (and probably should be booted off the range), but most have good intentions, and just need education.
     
  18. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    Sounds as if it was handled just fine to me...

    lpl/nc
     
  19. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Rules

    The club has had one revoked membership over the steel targets and he reapplied at the yearly membership sign-up meeting. He offered to reimburse
    the club for the one target that he damaged, and after a vote of the entire membership, they gave him the benefit of the doubt...that being that he wasn't the one that had damaged several...they let him rejoin, with full initiation costs repeated.

    It's not just about the costs incurred. It's as much about the targets being
    missing or non-functional for a club activity that the targets were intended for. Sometimes, a damaged target isn't discovered for several days...and if they don't have a replacement on hand at the time...a particular stage has to be adjusted for the missing or damaged target. The falling plate machines lose a plate on average of once a week, and we try to keep quick-change replacements on hand...but sometimes they break faster than they can be replaced. The welder/repairman is a member. He works a full-time job...and he makes or repairs plates on his limited time with his own equipment. He gets free yearly dues for his work...a hundred bucks...and reimbursement for materials. We know that the plates are being hit with rifle fire. We just haven't caught the shooters...yet.

    We've had the clubhouse and the line covers shot...Rule/Regulation signs shot...Gut piles on the range, even though the property is clearly posted for no hunting, which is a safety rule rather than an anti-hunting position. We just don't have a lot of patience left for shooters like that.
     
  20. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Having belonged to a private range where I had to drive 45 minutes to find out some individual had worked over the LOCKED plate rack with a centerfire rifle at 20yds, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who can't follow the rules.

    I think the key is whether it is an honest mistake or the damage was done deliberately. If it is an honest mistake, give them the chance to make it right by paying for the damage (though the target is still unusable for all the other club members while it is being repaired/replaced). If they have clearly been informed not to do it and they are doing it anyway, then they need to get the hook.
     
  21. Will Fennell

    Will Fennell Member

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    Different clubs, different situations.....

    Folks,
    Different clubs, and different situations......hard to make comparisons between atek's club, and another senario in say, North Carolina.

    atek, from the limited info that I can read here....you handeled things just fine. Better yet, the most important thing you did was invite him to the next match.
     
  22. atek3

    atek3 Member

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    Better yet, the most important thing you did was invite him to the next match.

    I know it sounds kind of silly but, the way I see things, if I see someone shell out 1,500 dollars on a single gun, I hope that they become VERY proficient with it. It pains me to see someone spend 1,500 dollars on a rilfe and then shoot beer cans with it once every few months. I'm thinking to myself, "Hey guy, how about I give you a 200 dollar SKS, and I'll take that useless AR off your hands." :)

    I'm not being serious of course, but I think that people with fine arms enjoy them more when they are skillful with them. And IMHO, best way for a civilian to build skill is a bit of training and a lot of competition.

    atek3
     
  23. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    Being young does not disqualify you from being right.
     
  24. Zen21Tao

    Zen21Tao Member

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    I had a problem at our range that I didn't handle as well as you. We all had paper targets up on wooden backdrops (2 long 2X4s with cardboard stapled between them) when along came a noob that walked down range stapling targets to the end of the target stands that people were using (his target stapled to a 2x4 and hanging 3/4 of the way off the target stand). When he came back I asked him if was dropped on his head as a child or just naturally retarded. He became all defensive whining that "its my first time here, I didn't know... (sob, sob)." Luckily it didn't come to blows and he went down and removed in ill placed targets. I wish I had handled it more diplomatic like you but I was shocked at this guys level of stupidity and arogance.
     
  25. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    Don't you just hate it when people intentionally put their targets in such a way that you shoot apart the stands.
     
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