LaPierre asked to resign

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by hso, Apr 26, 2019.

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  1. GEM

    GEM Moderator Emeritus

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    Maybe if you get off the 'socialist' threat and focus on gun rights, the NRA could be more expansive. The continuing 'socialist' rhetoric is ridiculous. It is irrelevant. The folks using it, don't even know what the term actual means in the American context. You going to take to the street with your AR, if some Medicare for All program or some more support for college tuition is passed?

    A complete takeover by government of all industries and private property is not a threat in the USA. Ranting about liberals - equally ridiculous as many folks who support gun rights are not interested in conservative positions on sexuality, for instance. Dog whistling racism is not an attractive facet of some of the more conservative types, so demanding conservative purity is equally idiotic.

    If folks want being conservative vs. liberal as a litmus test - then the shrinking white male conservative demographic will weaken the gun rights position. In fact, there is a wave of gun rights supporters who see the conservative wave as a reason to buy into the defense against tyranny and an increase in violent racism.

    For the true believers, I read Trump's speech to the NRA. It is a bag of nothing but platitudes. The UN treaty has nothing to do with American gun rights in any fashion. Trump spent a whole lot of time talking about himself and the Wall. Irrelevant. He said:

    BUMP STOCKS - you liar. They may be stupid but your precedent was a horrendous threat.

    Trump play acted using a gun to stop terrorist attacks. That's good but where is the action on reciprocity, where is a clear statement against the growing magazine bans that limit the gun you could carry in defense? Where is the rhetoric that he hopes those fine new Justices actually take case that will negate state MSSA bans, as an AR was used in Sutherland for the good. Will the new AG lead suits to remove the restrictions and delays in getting a handgun in several states? Heller should have stopped that but didn't. HPA, can't hear you Donald.

    The is what we need rather than blather about socialists. Socialist Bob Dole, Romney, the Bushes, etc. were for the AWB.

    You want gun rights - then all Americans need to support it and not just a subsection of a shrinking demographic that might send a check to Wayne.
     
  2. yeet

    yeet Member

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    GOA > NRA
     
  3. BSA1

    BSA1 member

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    I am assuming that your comment is directed at me since you posted it just after mine.

    Actually I do understand Socialism, Communism and must importantly the changes in the economic and social system that must occur to achieve those goals.

    All Americans supporting gun rights will never happen, especially in our society.

    Anyway this Is your forum and as other moderators have reminded me I do not fit in here.
     
  4. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    LOL
     
  5. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    We don't need "All Americans". Just enough to get pro-gun/2A law makers and presidents elected. ;)


    I just posted this new University of Kansas study of gun owners in America in the "Re-training of firearms related information" thread. Something for us and NRA to chew on.


    New Study of gun owners' trend - Gun owners' intensity turns "minority in American politics" into outsized force - https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/sep/4/gun-owners-intensity-turns-minority-american-polit/
    • New study done by University of Kansas shows growing political force by gun owners influencing slowed advancement for stiffer gun laws over the past four decades.
    • Study showed higher participation rates by gun owners for political action (contacting elected officials, signing petitions, contributing to campaigns, etc.) compared to non-gun owners.
    • Increasing number of gun owners voted in presidential elections from 1972 to 2016 while decreasing for non-gun owners.
    • Gun control advocates claim this trend is changing but even in light of mass shootings, their claim failed to be the case.
    • Study found high rate of activism was due to gun owners increasingly associating gun ownership with defending the core constitutional right to self defense.
    • Since 1980s, increasing majority of gun owners said they owned guns for protection because it's their right or because of the Second Amendment.
    • For many gun owners, owning a gun because they think it's an essential right guaranteed by the Second Amendment is core part of their political identity.
    • Director of GOA stated study confirms gun owners have higher level of political intensity than gun control activists which helped elect Trump in 2016 and picked up votes from pro-gun Democrats.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
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  6. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    GEM -- I wish I could "like" your last post multiple times! You said exactly what I would say.
     
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  7. Dain Bramage

    Dain Bramage Member

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    A weasel-worded statement as ever there was one. Insert "guns" for "industries and private property" and you have a Brady Campaign press release. Your fantasy marriage of increased socialism and gun rights has not worked anywhere, and will not work anywhere. The economic system known as socialism is inherently biased against individual rights.
     
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  8. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    We need to be careful to not conflate the public President of NRA, and the Executive Director (the behind the scenes CEO).

    Tom Selleck would be a good NRA President.
    But, we need somebody hard nosed like Fred Smith to step in as Exec Director. A serious CEO, who can cope with all the interlocking shells Beltway politics requires of activists.

    For better or worse, inside the Beltway, not having a $750K salary makes you little better than an Intern. That's how lopsided to the 2% DC has become, which is a distinct problems when you are running a grossroots group that spans flyover country and lives on what janitors make in DC.

    Our enemies live in, and throw, shade--it's their way; our only hoe is to use Light to scatter the roaches.
     
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  9. Blackstone

    Blackstone Member

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    Only if you deal in absolutes.
     
  10. GEM

    GEM Moderator Emeritus

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    If people want to rage quit because I disagree with them - sigh, go ahead.

    If you think talking about socialism is a good tactic , well we see about that.
     
  11. boom boom

    boom boom Member

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    A lot of folks might not understand this but due to non-profit laws and the original charter of the NRA, it is required to have an auxiliary operation such as the ILA in order to actually contribute to candidates and engage in political lobbying as these activities are not tax-exempt. NRA dues DO NOT GO to the ILA at all, these are separate contributions by those members who want to do so. So, the NRA does not take your membership dues and spend it on contributions to politicians nor for lobbying.

    "Established in 1975, the Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) is the "lobbying" arm of the National Rifle Association of America. ILA is responsible for preserving the right of all law-abiding individuals in the legislative, political, and legal arenas, to purchase, possess and use firearms for legitimate purposes as guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution." https://www.nraila.org/about/election-center/

    The major money sink for the NRA has been its NRATV and ad contracts with its ad agency which cost the NRA over $40 million in 2017. Apparently the ad agency runs the NRATV operation which employs Ollie North, Colin Noir, and Dana Loesch under contracts for their NRA TV appearances. Ollie North then got selected as the organization's unpaid President last year. The NRA sued the ad agency and Ollie North was effectively conflicted as his day-job salary was coming from the NRA TV via the NRA's ad agency. Ollie North argues that members came to him regarding law firm expenditures (maybe regarding the ad agency lawsuit?) https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/04/27/nra-president-oliver-north-convention-indianapolis-speech-power-struggle/3598606002/ As a result, LaPierre won the standoff and I suspect that the NRA TV and its ad agency may soon be axed as well.

    Currently, the NRA faces an investigation into its non-profit status by anti NRA Attorney General of NY (who called the NRA a terrorist organization shortly before becoming Atty Gen. upon the resignation due to misconduct of Elliot Spitzer. This will probably end up in court as well as the current litigation where the NRA is suing Gov. Cuomo and NY bank regulators for threatening banks and insurance companies doing business with the NRA. Even the ACLU has filed an amicus brief arguing that a right to access the banking system should not be threatened by politicians.

    On a less serious note, the NRA is also having issues in the ILA with alleged campaign expenditure coordination issues during the 2016 campaign with its vendor. Several Democratic members of the House and Senate, and a lawsuit by others seeks for force an investigation by the FEC into alleged coordination.

    What has happened is that effectively the vendors appeared to be running amuck which was ignored as the NRA's revenues were increasing. However, when belts tighten, then stuff that would have slid by becomes important to deal with. The Democratic party has had a problem with its creation --Media Matters which has a long history of issues. The Republican party has had problems with consultants and campaign vendors as well. I believe that the entire non-profit world has increasingly become a shell game that uses secrecy allowed by non-profits versus for profit stock companies to do a lot of insider benefit self dealing.

    However, ultimately, the blame to this does accord to LaPierre and perhaps Chris Cox if campaign finance problems exist (which given the motivations of those pursuing this are not the best in the world.) because if the vendors got out of line, they had the clout and duty to stop them.

    I suspect that the conductor of all of this is Michael Bloomberg and anti gun foundations such as the Joyce Foundations which has taken aim at killing any corporate affiliations with the NRA, tried to kill new products such as Carry Guard, funded investigations and anti-gun shell groups to harass the NRA, and made sure that media covers it as Bloomberg carries a big stick in the media.
     
  12. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

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    I guess studies are more accurate than polls, eh? For sure when they come out how you want.
     
  13. Wisco

    Wisco member

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    It’s simply currently convenient for many gun owners that the NRA has aligned itself with the political right.

    Tell you what, say the NRA and its politicians tell you being straight is stupid, christians are bad, capitalism sucks, and white people are problematic...would you still support them because...2A is more important?

    Of course not. Any dignified person with a modicum of self respect would say “not thanks. You don’t adequately represent me.”

    I’ve been saying that for a while. I’m done giving people money and votes because of guns when they actively work against me financially and socially.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
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  14. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    The irony here is that LaPierre started out, and continued to be until recently, joined at the hip with Ackerman McQueen. I'm beginning to suspect that all this is Kabuki theater, for certain parties to plausibly disavow each other in view of the pending lawsuits.
     
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  15. Guitarmike

    Guitarmike Member

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    I bought my first gun 3 years ago and joined the nra. While I agree that in a perfect world the nra would focus on nonpolitcal activities we (those of us with guns) are being attacked 24x7x365 by the American left. They do not want law abiding citizens owning guns. If they get control of congress and the white house it will be too late. If you think they will allow you to own anything bigger than a 22, you have fallen for their load of crap. We have to get political and beat them at their own game, if we do not we will lose. If 50% of the gun owners in the US were in the nra, we'd have concealed resiprosity signed into law and we'd be much more secure in knowing our 2nd amendment rights were not an election away from being taken away.
    Like most of you I wish it wasn't the case but it is.
     
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  16. boom boom

    boom boom Member

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    Quite possible or it is possible there was a falling out if Ollie did in fact try to remove LaPierre with some insurgent board members and LaPierre thinks Ackerman McQueen was behind it. As the board selection process essentially has frozen out independent voices, I suspect we might not know the truth until lawsuit discovery occurs.
     
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  17. Dain Bramage

    Dain Bramage Member

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    I'm not sure what that means. My family and I fled from the old Yugoslavia, so I don't deal in theoretical socialism, like some of the younger wide-eyed adherents now-a-days.
     
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  18. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    Oliver North resigned a few hours ago as NRA president. That position is a mostly honorary one without pay but with a number of perks. Some of those perks do get folks money and access to it.

    I don't know much about the internal life of the NRA and the stories coming from the national NRA regarding this current kerfuffle don't enlighten much regarding the real differences between the factions.

    What is clear though is that they are in part a result of the current campaign being waged against the NRA by central leaders of the Democratic party and it's politicians. This is particularly true regarding the attacks on the NRA's funding and legal right to raise funds and act . It's non profit status is under attack. It's right to have a bank account and credit is under attack. It's right to have insurance and offer it is under attack. The demand has been made that it turn over all it's financial records and lists of donors to N.Y. state. These are dangerous attacks on a legal organization. The attacks undermine democratic rights.

    Right now the NRA needs to be defended. That's the bottom line.

    I've never liked LaPierre or his crew of tuxedo wearing plutocrats and would like to see them leave, if something remotely better comes along. But I'll hold off on the open calls for them to git while the attack is on. It's not just the NRA that is threatened here. If Cuomo can run a legal organization into bankruptcy and out of existence with the NRA, they will use that power again on others.

    It's not the leadership of the NRA that it's enemies hate, it's the rank and file who defend the 2nd amendment.
     
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  19. Casefull

    Casefull Member

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    Divide and conquer and a lot of you guys are falling for it.
     
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  20. George P

    George P member

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    Don't forget Marion Hammer as well - all three at the top need to go
     
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  21. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    I'll just take this moment to say I had no idea Tom Selleck was that pro 2A. I like him as an actor and am a big Blue Bloods watcher but especially given his role in that show I would've thought he was mediocre or leaned left.

    The interview he did with Rosie in the late 90's seems to pop up a lot. I think he tried but got bamboozled.

    Anyway, based on what I've researched since this thread it seems he might very well be a possible 2A spokesperson.
     
  22. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    Ollie North is resigning.
     
  23. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

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    Agreed, but you are not the majority IMO. Many other folks would sell their souls for an AR.
     
  24. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

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    I don’t know how you can say that. He is written in the show to be so far right, he is in danger of falling off the edge of the flat Earth.
     
  25. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
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