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Law Enforcement Qualification Courses

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by shafter, Oct 31, 2022.

  1. shafter

    shafter Member

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    I recently came across this channel on Youtube. The gentleman has made a video where he shoots the law enforcement qualification course for each state. I've posted the link to the video where he rates the top 5 courses in his opinion plus some honorable mentions. His channel has videos for each state though and he fires each course with a different firearm.

    You may enjoy checking it out.

     
  2. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    I watched most of his videos.

    Spoiler alert: The PA LE course of fire comes out on top.
     
  3. nofendertom

    nofendertom Member

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    That's H.R. Funk. On his video, whenever he gives a review of a firearm, he sees if it is a "tack driver." He puts a plastic push pin in the target backing and attempts
    to hit it within 3 shots. Interesting...
     
  4. jonnyc

    jonnyc Member

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    HRFunk. I watch all his stuff.
     
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  5. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    At what minute mark of the video?

    Edited: Never mind. Ended up watching the whole video. So, gonna go down the rabbit hole and have to watch his videos on other states (curious, as I was once involved in curriculum development for firearms training and qualification).

    Some good points. Static courses that involve no movement, reloading or malfunction clearing are useless.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2022
    DustyGmt likes this.
  6. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    At around 9:50 he starts with #5. Prior to that are the honorable mentions. He really didnt go into much detail either.
     
  7. shafter

    shafter Member

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    He has separate videos where he shoots the qual course for all fifty states.
     
  8. PzGren

    PzGren Member

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    It is an interesting idea to do a comparison of the different state quals. I watched his presentation on the Texas qualification and sent the link to my son. He shoots a similar qualification with DPD and just commented that the guy sucks and is an average shot at best by department standards.
    I have to agree with my son, besides of Funk's poor marksmanship, there is too much movement in the gun during recoil and he regrips the pistol when drawing and during recoil. Also, drawing from a level three detention holster and shooting an approved gun is a little bit different than what he does.
     
  9. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    You guys have to remember if all law enforcement officers had to be great shots or go find another job, we would have fewer of them…got to keep the bar low enough to keep seats filled.

    There are lots of them that don’t shoot until they need to qualify again. From my LEO instructor friends stories, it seems some don’t even come to qualify with functional sidearms…
     
    starling, Riomouse911 and trackskippy like this.
  10. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    I've moved twice since I retired 13 years ago, so have done three different state courses for my HR218 cards.

    Our requal training sessions in NY included dummy rounds they put in our magazines, for clearing non functioning guns, but the actual course of fire that counted only included mag changes and time/distance differences, plus two hand, one hand, and weak hand shooting. Our indoor range shooting included low light, flashing lights and sirens, and running in place before shooting.

    I haven't seen any noteworthy differences between NY, CT, and my current state.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2022
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  11. BushMaster-15

    BushMaster-15 Member

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    Yep we're #2 it's far more difficult to qualify here than any other State that I'm aware of .
     
  12. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    I finally watched Funk shoot the supposed Washington state qual course. Two things: first, we have two police academies in the state, the state patrol academy in Shelton and the Basic Law Enforcement Academy (BLEA) over in Burien at the Criminal Justice Training Center (CJTC). Second, the course that Funk fired was the course for private security, private investigators, armed guards and bail recovery agents -- NOT law enforcement officers. Which explains his confusion over the six shot strings and long time limits for reloading. The actual BLEA course, and the WSP course, are of course somewhat more complex and challenging.

    So his evaluation of the state courses lost some credibility with me. His rankings are pretty meaningless if he cannot even acquire the correct qual course. Sometimes you can't find everything on the internet.

    And don't get me started on LEOSA quals. My state's could probably be fired for qual by a semi-competent shooter with eyes closed. Here's my state's currrent 25-round test:
    LEOSA QUAL.jpg
     
  13. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    Thats actually pretty scary. :)
     
  14. Bill Raby

    Bill Raby Member

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    Where I was living back in the 90's the entire police SWAT team failed to qualify one year.
     
    DoubleMag likes this.
  15. Remington1911

    Remington1911 Member

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    Missouri is #4.

    I need to watch the video series, thanks for linking that.

    I only got that far, so forgive the next question.

    Do the other videos in the series go into each state....or does he have a video for each state?

    I know we are getting ready to do our night qual here, many hope it will be nice outside.
     
  16. usaral63

    usaral63 Member

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    Well you are not alone in the blindfold qual's...........Florida's mandate is not quite as extreme as your State's but it ain't far behind. I truly believe that once oriented position wise a competent shooter would have no issue passing.

    The idiocy of 'pick up your brass' mindset still lives................and this is from someone that started in the very early '60's when qual's were bullseye/50 yds/weak and strong............in some ways that may have been better!
     
  17. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    I'm surprised they have a separate course for HR218, it was supposed to be the same as the regular active police course.

    LEOSA says qualified retired LEO's must meet “the standards for qualification in firearms training for active law enforcement officers as determined by the former agency of the individual, the State in which the individual resides or, if the State has not established such standards, either a law enforcement agency within the State in which the individual resides or the standards used by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State.”
     
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  18. 230RN

    230RN I keep pushing that pendulum back.

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    Even as a regular citizen I used to do that at indoor range I used to frequent to simulate stress conditions. RO couldn't stop it according to published rules, but I took the hint that it was a frownable action and stopped that. It turned out that it was another shooter at another firing point who complained because it was distracting and apparently concerned him, safety-wise.

    I know better than to argue points like that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2022
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  19. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    I believe this LEOSA qual course was developed by the Criminal Justice Training Center. CJTC is responsible for the basic law enforcement academy training for PDs and SOs here (WA State Patrol has its own academy) but also regulates the training and certification of armed (private) security, private investigators and bail enforcement agents. Not even close to the standard qual courses. Loose interpretation of HR218, I guess.
     
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  20. westernrover

    westernrover Member

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    PA course is highly questionable if it emphasizes "head shots" for "failures." Stupid idea. No doubt this originates from the Mozambique Drill. This drill is not based on documented practical experience or any evidence, but on an anecdotal story popularized by Jeff Cooper. It's based on flawed reasoning that if the most practical shot to make fails to stop the target, the shooter should then attempt a more difficult shot with a higher chance of failure. I am not claiming there is no justification for shots to the head. There are numerous justifications. There is, however, no justification for flawed reasoning, and this appears to codify flawed reasoning.
     
  21. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    The back up/retired course of fire was updated to include shooting at 6" circles on the hips for when shots to the body or head are not effective. This is done on two stages.

    As for the head shots during the regular course of fire, if shots to the body don't work and head shots are a stupid idea, what do you recommend then?
     
  22. westernrover

    westernrover Member

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    more hits
     
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  23. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    If you never practice making head shots, youll never make them. ;)

    I understand why some balk at them, but they do have their place. If you can hit a 6" circle on a hip on demand, the head shouldnt be a problem.
     
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  24. Smokin Gator

    Smokin Gator Member

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    The post that has the target and strings of fire listed shows "untimed reloads" but I don't see anything directing you to reload during a string. Is it just reloading between strings? Even considering that an officer would be using a retention holster the times seem generous.
     
  25. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    When our range officer yelled "he's wearing a vest" during training or requal, head shots were indicated.

    In my current location, head shots are part of the state required course of fire.
     
    wcwhitey likes this.
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