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Law officers Carry Bill

Discussion in 'Legal' started by GAMALOT, Dec 7, 2004.

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  1. GAMALOT

    GAMALOT Member

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    In late September, early November, President Bush signed into law the "Law Officers Carry Bill".

    My basic understanding of this bill is that it allows current and retired law enforcment officers the right to carry consealed weapons accross all state lines.

    Does anyone have the actual bill as it is written and could it be posted here.

    I am sure there is a great deal to be discussed but the discussion would better serve us if the Bill was posted for all to view.

    To date, my department has not posted any info in this regard.
     
  2. TheFederalistWeasel

    TheFederalistWeasel member

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    HR 218

    Your state should of sent down a ruling thru your AG's office as it is now Federal Law.
     
  3. voilsb

    voilsb Member

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    This is what I could find:
     
  4. voilsb

    voilsb Member

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    In other words, if you are currently a LEO and have your department ID with you, you can carry anywhere in any state so long as that state, or someone authorized by that state, has not said otherwise.

    If you're retired, and have either a retiree dept. ID and annual qualification certificate, or if you've got an annual qual. cert. with your picture on it, the same rules as above apply.
     
  5. GAMALOT

    GAMALOT Member

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    Now that was quick and quite a mouthful!
    Thanks Voilsb.

    Now I need to get re qualified to the state standards as a retiree.
     
  6. voilsb

    voilsb Member

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    No problem. Too bad it doesn't apply to the rest of the citizenry. It'd be nice if it would at least allow for anyone who has qualified within the last year to the State's police standard to pack anywhere. I could do that in a heartbeat.
     
  7. GAMALOT

    GAMALOT Member

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    I would agree that any person who has been issued a Consealed Carry permit by the state they reside in should be allowed to carry in other states who have a reciprocal agreement. If Maine allows a liscensed New Yorker to carry then NY should reciprocate and honor a Maine Liscense.

    My problem with letting everyone have free rein is from my Weapons Training Officer Certification. I was the one in my jail who had to re qualify all employees every year. If an employee could not be safe and shoot 225 out of 300 on a standard police "Man" target then that employee lost his right to carry any department or personal weapons.
    Many FAILED, most did not care and wanted nothing to do with guns and then there were the cowboys who wanted to be real gunslingers and would get someone hurt quick.
    There was also a portion of the day set aside for discussion of the legal ramifications of the use of deadly physical force- when you had the right to shoot and when you did not. This was important because as Peace officers we had to have a firm understanding of the laws.
    I guess I have to fault the various states and the requirements they have for issueing carry permits. In NY, where I am, you don't have to know anything about the law and you don't have to know how to shoot the gun you carry with any degree of accuracy. You do have to have a clean record and go thru alot of useless crap to get the permit but once issued, there is no training mandated at all.
    If there ever was a way to standardize the required training throughout the country and everyone who was issued a carry permit had to pass a training course, I would agree that a carry permit is a carry permit anywhere in the country.
    I lived for a short period in Kentucky and anyone could buy a hand gun at a yard sale or flea market as long as they had a valid drivers liscense. Actually, no one ever even asked to see mine.
    I guess I have to agree that some regulation and some training should be standardized and made mandatory in all states but I don't expect my opinion to be popular here.
    Here in NY it is alot easier to buy an illegal gun then it is to get it legally.
    The purpose of the Bill was to put alot of trained law enforcment officers, who would normally not be packing outside their home state, in posession of guns to bolster homeland security. Great idea and a very nice addition to the rights we have but I am certain it will open a can of worms when the cowboys I refered to earlier get on vacation and try to be cops where they are not welcome or have half a load on. We have had NY Correction Officers flipping their badges and waving their guns at 70 MPH trying to pull speeders over. Fortunately the speeder was an FBI Agent who had enough time to handle this matter. Every department has them, and bad apples do spoil the crate.
     
  8. OpenRoad

    OpenRoad member

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    I guess I would have failed. I shot half of the 10 round clip through the same hole during my CWP test. What did you do, use 50 different targets? :rolleyes:
     
  9. GAMALOT

    GAMALOT Member

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    As long as the hole half your clip was shot thru was in a scoreing ring then you might pass.
    I was an X man myself back when I could still see the front sight and we used the old S&W 4" Model 10 with fixed sights.
    Don't know if you were being funny but I had a run of 18, 300 scores with 30 X's in a row. Basically all 30 rounds went thru the same hole. Now I need a scope :neener:
     
  10. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    "I guess I would have failed. I shot half of the 10 round clip through the same hole during my CWP test. What did you do, use 50 different targets?"

    And at what distance did you shoot these 5 rounds, and under what conditions?? :rolleyes:
     
  11. Dbl0Kevin

    Dbl0Kevin Member

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    Yep. The world is full of double standards. You can either learn to work them to your advantage, work to change them, or complain about how they hold you back.

    Personally I see HR218 as a nice stepping stone to broader CCW across the country in time. We can't expect to make gains in huge chunks. The anti's played their hand slowly over time and now the pendelum is starting to swing back in our direction....patience my good man patience. :)
     
  12. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Furious, don't think of it as a dual standard, think of it as the advanced guard of national ccw. :D
     
  13. GAMALOT

    GAMALOT Member

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    Again I have to agree! If you are legal for CCW in the state you live in then why not in all of these "UNITED STATES"??????????????
    I still believe the answer lies in the lack of standards and training.
    If every state had requirements that must be met prior to issuance of a CCW liscense that insisted on training and some degree of personal refrence then and only then will the laws be equal.
    Right here we can easily discuss where it is simple in some states to get a CCW while in others it is nearly impossible. It is also a requirement in many states that a candidate for CCW go thru a training class while in others there is no such requirement.
    Some states allow convicted felons to have guns- or do not enforce the laws in this regard while others restrict this right forever.
    In some states any YaHOO can buy a gun while in others one must meet strict requirements to do so.
    I think the Pro Gun Lobby would serve us all much better if they worked for some standardization of the requirements.
    Lets face a fact I have seen many, many times. If a LEO who is at the range durring annual requalification misses the target completely 8 out of 12 shots from the 7 yard line, this is not a guy I want dragging out a fully loaded Glock and comming to anothers defense while under real preassure.
    How many times have we heard the story of the cop who had a shoot out in his own patrol car with a cuffed perp in the back seat, 19 shots fired- NO INJURIES REPORTED!
    I have to go with the old school teachings, when the bullet leaves the gun-YOU OWN IT and are responsible for where it goes.
     
  14. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    A few incompetents, whether LEO or otherwise, is no excuse to bar a basic right. In any event, I'll take the risks of freedom over the safety of the alternative. I believe that our Constitution require us all to do so.

    Standing Wolf -- See anything in the Second Amendment about this?
     
  15. voilsb

    voilsb Member

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    Yeah, what I was saying was that, if the regular guys (read: non-cops) should be allowed to carry just like the retired cops, provided they meet the same standard (qualify once per year).
     
  16. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    GAMALOT, the qualifications for drivers' licenses vary from state to state but, oddly, there is a federal interstate compact that allows a NY license to be valid in Wyoming. Why the lack of concern over qualifications while I pilot a one ton weapon from state to state? :confused:

    I do not understand the reference to felons? Federal law prohibits those convicted of most felonies to be disqualified from purchasing firearms, regardless of what state law says. That apply would apply still even when we get an interstate compact as to CCW licenses.

    Treat CCWs as drivers' licenses. Simple and we are now OWED this as well as much, much more! :cool:
     
  17. JPM70535

    JPM70535 Member

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    Since I am computer illiterate, I can't access the documents I have read concrning Florida's reaction to the question of how to deal with HR:218 or I would post them.If you go to Florida Dept of Agriculture, licensing section and follow the instructions you will get to a section compiled by FL. DOJ and FDLE. The way I interpret this is that Florida is going to take action to establish uniform standards which would allow Retired LEOs residing in Florida to meet the criteria.

    If someone would post the info here I'm sure the resulting discourse will make interesting reading matter.

    Thanks

    JPM
     
  18. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    GAMALOT,

    Are you saying training, certification, and licensing should be pre-requisite to bearing arms?
     
  19. RealGun

    RealGun Member

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    Be careful what you buy into. My baseline is that CCW licensing is unconstitutional. The LEO privilege law is a bad one because it underlines that the poilce are a special class of citizen and makes the value judgment that only police should have guns. If you look closely, it relies on the assumption that police have training standards, so it also implies that only formal training and periodic requalification should allow one to carry a gun. Never mind the right of self defense or any freedom granted by the 2nd Amendment. If someone thinks there should be a law, they just pass it. And what do we do? We rejoice about how it is a stepping stone to a "privilege" to carry nationwide. PFFFFT!
     
  20. GAMALOT

    GAMALOT Member

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    What I am saying is that training and certification and lisencing could make this argument a more passable one with the law makers.
    There are a bunch of great point above and all or most have some validity but the fact is we are P'ing into the wind thinking it would ever be possible to get a CCW Nation wide without some restrictive measures.
    I don't make the laws and neither do many of us but we will never see a nation wide CCW with out restrictions.
    Just look at the diversity of posts in this thread!
    I will always opt for safety when it comes to CCW. Comming from a strong back ground in weapons training and having seen first hand LEO's who are not particularly well trained, I must stand my ground.
    What good will it be to have every one packing when a vast majority of them will not even take the time to learn and understand their weapons or the laws regarding the use of deadly physical force.
    I don't advocate the loss of any rights! I do advocate the responsibility to enjoy your rights safely.
     
  21. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Gam, I think your argument would be more effective if we had stats of non-training states vs. trainng states. For example, is there a distinction between say Texas, which requires training, and Indiana, which does not require training?

    Training merely to satisfy a statutory requirement is feckless. To make an impact we must change of the gun culture's perception that possession is competence.

    If we start out with the notion that the government is allowed to set standards for exercising a right, then we are in trouble from the get go. Just my .02. It's nice to have you on board and on our side. Now let's start the drum beat for the legislation! :)
     
  22. sturmruger

    sturmruger Member

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    I am seriously considering becoming a reserve officer here in WI. Once I get my picture ID I will be authorized to carry anywhere in the country. To me that is worth the time and the trouble of becoming a part time LEO.
     
  23. wmenorr67

    wmenorr67 Member

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    I believe that Reserve officers do not fall into the ones able to carry under HR218. I maybe wrong but I believe that there maybe a section that states that the officer must be sworn and most Reserves are not.
     
  24. voilsb

    voilsb Member

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    I posted the entire text of the law. The word "sworn" is not in it. Here are the specific criteria for being considered a "qualified LEO":
    In other words, if your department says you can carry a gun and make arrests, then you qualify. Sounds like Reserve Officers count, unless they can't carry guns or can't make arrests.
     
  25. Firethorn

    Firethorn Member

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    Next Step:

    Military/CCW permit holders. Security guards. PI's. Honorably discharged military. Then anybody who can legally posses a firearm.

    As for training, I'd put it in school right along with drivers' & sex ed.
    Elementary: Eddie Eagle's don't touch, tell an adult, and air rifles.
    Jr. High: .22's. Both rifle and pistol.
    High School: High Power & Shotguns.

    I know that many start earlier than this, but we're talking about public school here.
     
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