LE groups against our rights

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Having said that.....if every gun owner in the US was a member of the NRA we would not have to worry about a few Demorats. I'm a Life member, you?

There's the activism: join and support the NRA. Here's the application form. Do it now.

It might be worth knowing that the current NRA President, John Sigler, is a retired police captain.
 
Yes most cops are anti gun. They fear encounters with armed citizens, and every citizen is viewed as a enemy until proven otherwise (thin blue line bull crap and 1* garbage, etc.).

On what do you base this statement? Can you provide proof? How many LEO have you dealt with? What's your involvement with LEO? How long have you had dealing with LEO?

Give us answers to these questions so we have a feel as to where you are coming from.

Or are you just stating a biased opinion!

I've been dealing with LEO for over 45 years, from the Fed level down to the locals. I can tell you for a fact that of the ones that I have dealt with I have never, repeat never, had ONE state that he or she was opposed to the general public owning firearms, in particular handguns!
 
Weak argument

It doesn't matter if the rank and file are pro-Bill of Rights, though I see very little evidence for that opinion, if individual officers are going to follow orders, even plainly illegal ones, as was the case in New Orleans. Ray Nagin decided to illegally disarm the citizenry and issued an immoral, unconstitutional and illegal order. No unit, officer, agency or department stood up and challenged him. They went out and, to watch the videos and hear the evidence, enthusiastically enforced his order.

Individual officers with paychecks and pensions are going to do whatever they are told to do even if it's illegal, unconstitutional, immoral or un-American. That's just the way it is.

The first step in activism is to be able to grasp reality. This is the reality of where we are as a country. Are we going to do something about it? if so, what?
 
That having been said, and since we are, after all, discussing this in Activism . . .

I there any suggested ACTION that anyone would like to propose?

If the thread serves only to gripe and counter-gripe, then I'll have to close it.

Anyone?
You could always do what I used to before I stopped answering the phone entirely.

If you get fundraising calls from people like FOP, ask them what their stance on various gun control issues is. If the boilerroom bot on the line can't elucidate a clear position, demand to speak to a supervisor. Keep asking until you get a straight answer. When they tell you that they support "X" gun grab scheme tell them that because of that you will NOT give them ANY money and that you will be advising all of your friends and relatives to do likewise.
 
They follow for the same reason most of us follow our employer's work instructions to a point. It's a job, that does not mean they agree with the boss's politics or affliations. I'm sure there are many LEO's that belong to the NRA etc. Every CCW instructor I've been taught by was either an LEO or a retired LEO. If they didn't want citizens to CCW why would they facilitate us getting CCW?
 
And how many people really understand that the "rank and file" DISAGREES with a nationally vocal union, organization or whatever that tells everyone that it represents the "rank and file"?

If the "rank and file" don't do diddly squat to send the message to those REPRESENTING their opinions -- their chiefs, commissioners, bosses -- then it's kind of a moot point, isn't it?

Who here really thinks the average joe or soccermom says to him/herself, "geez, the FOP supports removing all these evil guns, but the cop on the street doesn't mind, so I guess I'll believe them instead. And I know this because I personally had to interview dozens of LEO's from the local level, on up to the feds and they all were open and honest with me regarding their 2nd Amendment stance. Oh, but my friend just got busted because his legally owned firearm was considered concealed while he was driving his car, but, hey, they all have a job to do too, so I don't blame them in the least."
 
I Think We Agree . . .

. . . that the problem is in union/association leadership.

So, then, how do we go about getting the voices of the (pro-2a) majority out where they can be heard?
 
Well, Arfin, I for one, do not belong to any of those organizations, so there isn't much that I can do about it.

I made a promise on THR last month to join the NRA and I was thoughtfully provided a link where it would save me a bit of money. I will follow through with that promise and post on THR when I am able to.

I write letters to the editor and emails to my representatives as well. In fact, I did none of these things until I joined THR and became much more politically aware.

In this case, what else can I do?
 
How Newark, Ohio LEOs view CCW. From the Newark, Ohio Advocate.

Newark police Sgt. John Brnjic said concealed carry has not posed many problems for his department either, but he added it still makes officers uncomfortable.

When license plates are run before a traffic stop, Brnjic said other units respond when the driver has a CCW permit, just in case.

"The minute you hear 'CCW,' officers pay a little bit more attention," he said.

Brnjic said he would like to see penalties strengthened for violations.

A couple of weeks ago, he stopped a CCW holder who repeatedly lied about having a weapon in his possession, Brnjic said.

The man was charged with a felony, but because of the structure of the law the deception was not a more serious infraction, Brnjic said.

"If he would have had it in a holster, it would just be a misdemeanor," he said.
 
In Virginia, if a police officer asks you for assistance, you must comply. If not, you go to jail.

In Virginia, if you ask a police officer for assistance, and they can't help you, you're SOL.

Ask not what your police state can do for you, but what you can do for your police state.

:sigh: :eek:
 
Originally posted by LT1coupe: They follow for the same reason most of us follow our employer's work instructions to a point. It's a job, that does not mean they agree with the boss's politics or affliations. I'm sure there are many LEO's that belong to the NRA etc. Every CCW instructor I've been taught by was either an LEO or a retired LEO. If they didn't want citizens to CCW why would they facilitate us getting CCW?

Possibly because they are getting paid. Just as they teach classes they also enforce unconstitutional laws. Follow the money.
 
Horse feathers to you who call the USA a police state. Go out, make a determined effort, and find someone who lived through a Nazi death camp, or find someone who has spent time in a Soviet Gulag. I have had a few discussions with the former, and only one with someone who was the latter. They will fully explain Police State to you in no uncertain terms. Anyone who truly believes the USA to be a Police State, is in my view, either paranoid, out of his or her mind, or are just full of the solid wastes that smell bad. Now if what I just said is not high road enough for the High Road, why don't you go back and look at some of the other things said in this very same thread. Absolutely disgusting and full of emotional flaming and trolling, rather than full of fact to support the police state argument or anti police rhetoric. Sure you should be on your toes, be prepared to prevent a police state if it gets even near to that, but first why not get some understanding about the meaning of those two words!
 
my neighbor is a police officer. He's anti-gun in the sense that he would wish that guns were never invented, but I've never heard him say anything about how he has a problem with citizens with guns.

If anything, police should praise law-abiding citizens with guns because it means that the police wouldnt have to worry about protecting everyone since citizens could protect themselves in most instances. But honestly, I dont see the big deal with a bunch of small special interest groups backing the Brady campaign. NRA still dwarfs BC in size and lobbying power by a HUGE margin. If you listed all the LEOs, VIPs, or special interest groups backing the NRA, then that list would probably make your jaw drop.

And +2000 for Glenn for saying what only a few of us have been saying this whole time. I am not very fond of the police either, nor do I like our government's current state, but good god; ease up on the conspiracy theories. Politicians and LEOs are people like you and me and everyone else.
 
Having traveled and lived in the US and several foreign countries, it equates to this- most cops are products of their environment and culture and become police not too far from where they were hatched. If the majority of Americans become anti-gun the majority of police reflect that opinion.
In my personal opinion I have never met or seen a police officer who became a cop to defend the Constitution. Mainly the job is sought by well intentioned folk but many (not all) are seeking a "power" position in society....
 
Glenn Bartley is right. We may be on the path towards a police state, but we are still farrrr from it. Now is the time to change course while we still can.

As for police unions being anti, the leaders of most unions hold views and enact policies that are actually contrary and harmful to the gerneral membership. Just look how UAW got in bed with Granholm and other Dems before her, and ended up getting screwed out of jobs by the Dems anti-capitalism, anti-business ideas. They voted their own auto industry into the grave. Or look at teacher's unions that pay much more time looking for ways to just get more money than actually looking to better the education system. There was a time in the past where unions were absolutely the savior to the normal worker. But the pendulum has swung the other way and now most unions in this country do more harm to normal people than good. They are too interested in short term financial gains for themselves than long term stability for their members.
 
Commentary

Well, it's neither Activism nor Legal, so the only place this might belong is General.

Unhappily, it's inflamatory enough that it would simply become a noise fest in General.

So, unless there's some activism that can derive from this, I'm gonna close the thread.

Anyone?
 
Perhaps we can stop funding police departments? What about suing departments for failure to comply with the Bill of Rights? Just tieing up the legal funds of PDs so they dont have funding to hire anyone who would harm our interests or replace their gear? Always vote in opposition of raising taxes that would benefit PDs in any way? How about petition for a slow disarmament of police and other LEOs? How about asking our legislators to reaappeal LEOSA?
 
Arfin,

May I remind you of my post upthread (#34)? Did I not ask what I could do in this instance?

You want action, I'm asking for your input. Maybe someone else before the thread is locked?
 
Perhaps we can stop funding police departments? What about suing departments for failure to comply with the Bill of Rights? Just tieing up the legal funds of PDs so they dont have funding to hire anyone who would harm our interests or replace their gear? Always vote in opposition of raising taxes that would benefit PDs in any way? How about petition for a slow disarmament of police and other LEOs? How about asking our legislators to reaappeal LEOSA?

If this is the best "activism" we can come up with then close the thread.
 
The vast majority of police unions are in bed with the democratic party as a means of increasing their political power and the benefits they receive from it.

Police executives do as they are told or risk their cushy jobs. they will say what their masters tell them to say.

My guess is most individual officers are more like average Americans in their political views, after all they are just average Americans like the rest of us.

I would not get all that worked up about it.
 
Note that the Fraternal Order of Police (nation's largest police union, makes the others look like a bunch of facades) is not supporting the D.C. ban.
 
Maybe, just maybe, what gun owners need to do is start a new organization that puts LEOs and civvies in the same activism basket under the heading that the officers and civvies want the same thing.
Like:
Law Enforcement and Firearms Owners for Protection of the 2nd Amendment.
LEAFOP 2a <--- that even sounds cool enough for the ninjas.
 
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