Seamaster31
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- Feb 19, 2019
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- 175
I am getting just under 2,800 fps from my 22" barrel using a fairly stiff load of IMR 4350.
Lead-free hunting bullet experiences/recommendations
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old heeler
Member
This is Nosler loading data for 30-06 using their 168gr E-Tip. .click on 150gr/168gr
https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/30-06-springfield/
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Thus far I expect my coppers to be a titch slower than their counterparts, you're right around 50 fps slower, and that I would call acceptable, I think you're on the right track chasing a different powder here. I'm just spitballing, but the 4350 should get you closer to the 2740-60 range. 4451 performs similarly and is pretty temp stable too.
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When I tell people how many critters I’ve killed with Barnes X, TSX and now TTSX they think I’m lying because it’s a large number. But nonetheless when you count hogs and cull critters in Africa it’s hundreds and hundreds. I’ve used Barnes in multiple calibers, .243, .308, .30/06, .300WM, .338WM, .358 Win, .375H&H, .9.3x74R, .404 Jefferys, .458Lott, and .470NE.
I could talk for hours on the subject of bullet performance but I’ll keep it short. (As possible); )
Accuracy with the TSX and TTSX (LRX) is outstanding. I have never seen a rifle that won’t shoot them to match grade levels once you get them dialed in. The first step in getting them dialed is shooting them from a perfectly clean bore. By clean I mean no other metal fouling from different types of gilding metals. If you are having accuracy problems with a TSX, TTSX, LRX bullet I can almost promise you your bore has metal fouling in it. Buy some wipeout soak your bore for 24 hours and it will almost always solve your problem. If of course your rifle doesn’t have other issues.......
If your bore has some metal fouling from Barnes bullets it doesn’t see to matter but they don’t like dissimilar metal in the bore.
Performance on game is devastating. The TSX/TTSX and LRX bullets all provide rapid expansion and then deep straight line penetration. I have never seen a Barnes fail to open even at lower velocity. I have heard stories and seen some pictures but it’s never happened to me.
Witnessed Barnes issues;
I saw a guy shoot a huge bodied bull elk with a .300 Weatherby using a 165 Gr Barnes original. The bull went straight down, stone cold dead. On recovery we found the bullet had entered and during expansion blown all of its petals off within the first 6 inches or so. The bullet then exited as a square nosed solid.
I had a TSX do the 90 deg turn deal on a buck antelope once. I shot him at about 300 yards with a 180gr TSX out of a .300 WM. The shot was a bit high and the bullet entered high behind the shoulder penetrated about 3 inches then turned and went straight up exiting next to the spine. The buck went down to the shot and I had to shoot him once more when he started to get up. I have no explanation other than I think I might have hit a yucca cactus prior to the bullet hitting the antelope. I don’t really know.
Over penetration, don’t think a Barnes won’t exit even on big bodied critters like elk or moose. I had a buddy shoot a big cow elk with his .270 Win at about 200 yards. The bullet exited and killed another big cow that was standing 50 or so yards behind his cow. That expanded TSX penetrated all the way through the second cow and was found in the skin of the off side of the rib cage. Also had a buddy shoot through his deer with 100 gr TSX out of a .25-06 and kill a deer I was getting ready to shoot that was standing behind and off to the side of the his deer. Good thing we had two tags!
Under expansion on light critters. With all of the glowing review I’ve made above I have to say that while Barnes are super good deer and antelope bullets they are not my favorite deer or antelope bullets. It has not happened to me but I have seen a lung shot deer run a LONG way with a poor blood trail after being hit with a 168gr TTSX from a .300WSM. The deer was hit a towards the back of the lungs, the bullet entered opened up and exited perfectly between the ribs in and out. It never touched a bone. It took a while before his lungs started to fill with blood and leave a trail. I feel that a more conventional bullet would have done a better job in that circumstance.
In summary I feel that the Barnes series is absolutely one of the best heavier game bullets available and it’s what I use from elk on up. I also use them on hogs as hogs and African game of all sorts are very solidly built. If I am using them on deer I don’t shoot behind the shoulder, I shoot for the “vital triangle” so that the bullet has enough resistance to open rapidly no questions asked. If if the bullet slips back into the traditional American aiming point it’s a 99.9% sure deal that it’ll perform and provide a clean kill anyway.
I’ve see far more bullet failures and weirdness with cup and core bullets on big critters than Barnes over the years.
Nosler Accubond is my favorite deer and smaller game bullet. Barnes is my favorite heavier game bullet. Lead fragments are absolutely not an issue if you don’t eat the lead. Cut away damaged meat, you’ll be fine. This issue kind of reminds me of the whole don’t use carbon fiber arrows because on game because the carbon fiber is bad for you. In reality it’s just not an issue.
I guarantee you that my meat that was killed with a lead core bullet is safer and cleaner than anything that was slaughtered in a commercial packing house.
I could talk for hours on the subject of bullet performance but I’ll keep it short. (As possible); )
Accuracy with the TSX and TTSX (LRX) is outstanding. I have never seen a rifle that won’t shoot them to match grade levels once you get them dialed in. The first step in getting them dialed is shooting them from a perfectly clean bore. By clean I mean no other metal fouling from different types of gilding metals. If you are having accuracy problems with a TSX, TTSX, LRX bullet I can almost promise you your bore has metal fouling in it. Buy some wipeout soak your bore for 24 hours and it will almost always solve your problem. If of course your rifle doesn’t have other issues.......
If your bore has some metal fouling from Barnes bullets it doesn’t see to matter but they don’t like dissimilar metal in the bore.
Performance on game is devastating. The TSX/TTSX and LRX bullets all provide rapid expansion and then deep straight line penetration. I have never seen a Barnes fail to open even at lower velocity. I have heard stories and seen some pictures but it’s never happened to me.
Witnessed Barnes issues;
I saw a guy shoot a huge bodied bull elk with a .300 Weatherby using a 165 Gr Barnes original. The bull went straight down, stone cold dead. On recovery we found the bullet had entered and during expansion blown all of its petals off within the first 6 inches or so. The bullet then exited as a square nosed solid.
I had a TSX do the 90 deg turn deal on a buck antelope once. I shot him at about 300 yards with a 180gr TSX out of a .300 WM. The shot was a bit high and the bullet entered high behind the shoulder penetrated about 3 inches then turned and went straight up exiting next to the spine. The buck went down to the shot and I had to shoot him once more when he started to get up. I have no explanation other than I think I might have hit a yucca cactus prior to the bullet hitting the antelope. I don’t really know.
Over penetration, don’t think a Barnes won’t exit even on big bodied critters like elk or moose. I had a buddy shoot a big cow elk with his .270 Win at about 200 yards. The bullet exited and killed another big cow that was standing 50 or so yards behind his cow. That expanded TSX penetrated all the way through the second cow and was found in the skin of the off side of the rib cage. Also had a buddy shoot through his deer with 100 gr TSX out of a .25-06 and kill a deer I was getting ready to shoot that was standing behind and off to the side of the his deer. Good thing we had two tags!
Under expansion on light critters. With all of the glowing review I’ve made above I have to say that while Barnes are super good deer and antelope bullets they are not my favorite deer or antelope bullets. It has not happened to me but I have seen a lung shot deer run a LONG way with a poor blood trail after being hit with a 168gr TTSX from a .300WSM. The deer was hit a towards the back of the lungs, the bullet entered opened up and exited perfectly between the ribs in and out. It never touched a bone. It took a while before his lungs started to fill with blood and leave a trail. I feel that a more conventional bullet would have done a better job in that circumstance.
In summary I feel that the Barnes series is absolutely one of the best heavier game bullets available and it’s what I use from elk on up. I also use them on hogs as hogs and African game of all sorts are very solidly built. If I am using them on deer I don’t shoot behind the shoulder, I shoot for the “vital triangle” so that the bullet has enough resistance to open rapidly no questions asked. If if the bullet slips back into the traditional American aiming point it’s a 99.9% sure deal that it’ll perform and provide a clean kill anyway.
I’ve see far more bullet failures and weirdness with cup and core bullets on big critters than Barnes over the years.
Nosler Accubond is my favorite deer and smaller game bullet. Barnes is my favorite heavier game bullet. Lead fragments are absolutely not an issue if you don’t eat the lead. Cut away damaged meat, you’ll be fine. This issue kind of reminds me of the whole don’t use carbon fiber arrows because on game because the carbon fiber is bad for you. In reality it’s just not an issue.
I guarantee you that my meat that was killed with a lead core bullet is safer and cleaner than anything that was slaughtered in a commercial packing house.
OP
OP
Gtscotty
Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2007
- Messages
- 3,678
I finally got back out last week to chrono some heavier charges of RL-16 along with a range of loads of H4350 and RL17. My Magnetospeed took a dump (for the second time) right when I got to the range so I wound up having to drive home and pick up my cheap but trusty F1 Chrony.
Most of the following loads are either not in the book, or are above book max, use at your own risk, or better yet, don't use at all, etcetera and so forth.... Obligatory disclaimer.
168gr TTSX, Winchester brass, CCI 200s, 3.26"
RL16:
56gr - 2,611 fps
56.5gr - 2,645 fps
57gr - 2,671 fps
57.5gr - 2,722 fps
RL17:
55gr - 2,672 fps
55.5gr - 2,720 fps
56gr - 2,751 fps
56.5gr - 2,791 fps
57gr - 2,786 fps
57.5gr - 2,805 fps
58gr - 2,815 fps
H4350:
55.5gr - 2,604 fps
56gr - 2,620 fps
56.5gr - 2,682 fps
57gr - 2,680 fps
57.5gr - 2,694 fps
58gr - 2,734 fps
58.5gr - 2,771 fps
I didn't have any hard bolt lifts or flat primers, no apparent visual indicators of over pressure. The top end of H4350 is about where I would expect for the same charge weights with jacketed bullets in this rifle, or maybe a touch lower and RL17 looks pretty similar.
I'm not really sure what to think, I went in expecting the TTSX to produce higher pressures with less powder, but the velocities and cases sure look similar to what I've seen with jacketed bullets at the same charge weights.
I wouldn't mind trying some RL17 loads in the flat spot between 56.5gr and 57.5gr, but from what I've read, that powder is particularly temperature sensitive. I might use this load anywhere between -10 F and 80 F and I don't want to use anything with enough of a velocity swing to compromise a 300yd - 350yd shot.
The same charge range in H4350 might be worth a try, but the velocities are ~110 fps slower. I'm not over overly focused on max velocity, but I am a bit paranoid about running the copper bullets too slow for my intended ranges.
Most of the following loads are either not in the book, or are above book max, use at your own risk, or better yet, don't use at all, etcetera and so forth.... Obligatory disclaimer.
168gr TTSX, Winchester brass, CCI 200s, 3.26"
RL16:
56gr - 2,611 fps
56.5gr - 2,645 fps
57gr - 2,671 fps
57.5gr - 2,722 fps
RL17:
55gr - 2,672 fps
55.5gr - 2,720 fps
56gr - 2,751 fps
56.5gr - 2,791 fps
57gr - 2,786 fps
57.5gr - 2,805 fps
58gr - 2,815 fps
H4350:
55.5gr - 2,604 fps
56gr - 2,620 fps
56.5gr - 2,682 fps
57gr - 2,680 fps
57.5gr - 2,694 fps
58gr - 2,734 fps
58.5gr - 2,771 fps
I didn't have any hard bolt lifts or flat primers, no apparent visual indicators of over pressure. The top end of H4350 is about where I would expect for the same charge weights with jacketed bullets in this rifle, or maybe a touch lower and RL17 looks pretty similar.
I'm not really sure what to think, I went in expecting the TTSX to produce higher pressures with less powder, but the velocities and cases sure look similar to what I've seen with jacketed bullets at the same charge weights.
I wouldn't mind trying some RL17 loads in the flat spot between 56.5gr and 57.5gr, but from what I've read, that powder is particularly temperature sensitive. I might use this load anywhere between -10 F and 80 F and I don't want to use anything with enough of a velocity swing to compromise a 300yd - 350yd shot.
The same charge range in H4350 might be worth a try, but the velocities are ~110 fps slower. I'm not over overly focused on max velocity, but I am a bit paranoid about running the copper bullets too slow for my intended ranges.
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