Leading shots

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DAP90

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I’ve recently taken up 5-stand, having moved over from the trap range.

I was speaking with the RO after a session and we were talking about the different shots on the course. He kept saying this one needs 8 ft of lead here but only 6ft after such and such a point, etc.

It occurred to me later I don’t really know how to accurately judge leads at various distances. I couldn’t tell you specifically what a shot requires and I have trouble quantifying what I’m leading it. I’m doing OK and getting better but I can’t give concrete numbers to these things like he apparently can.

The speeds and distances of the shots are all over the board. In addition they’re climbing, curving, dropping, bouncing (darn rabbits), coming at you, going away from you and doing who knows what else.

First, how do you know how much lead a given shot requires? There are a lot of variables including speed, distance, what load you’re shooting, flight path, etc.

Second, how do you determine how much lead you have on a given shot while it’s in flight? I mean, you’ve got seconds (or less) and the whole flight path isn’t optimal shooting time. He was talking about seeing the bead and using that as a measurement. To be honest I see the bead, sort of, but mostly what I see is the clay.

I’ve been shooting them instinctively, not really thinking in terms of feet needed, just leading them and shooting.

Any tips?
 
What you see as one length and I see - on the same targets, is going to be different. There are a LOT of videos for sale by a variety of shooting champs discussing this. When I am hitting a target my friends are missing, and they ask me how far - I can't really tell them. What I CAN tell them is where I am in relation to a clock - 7:30, for example is left and below, etc. Typically, if your gun fits you well, most misses are from behind. There's an old adage - "When in doubt, try missing in front". Targets that are dropping require a faster movement as they are the only targets accelerating. Targets that are quartering out require less lead than those going straight across.

There is not enough difference at 30 yards from a shell going 1150 or one going 1350 to make any difference - except on your shoulder.

Climbing targets slow as they rise - either swing through and as you pass the target, pull the trigger (and continue up with the muzzle), or when it hits the peak, float it above your bead a little and pull the trigger.

Rabbits are the slowest and most misses happen behind and over the target - folks have an issue with shooting at the ground. Since my gun shoots 60/40 - I aim at the ground where I envision the outstretched front paw of the bunny would be
Incomers, especially quartering in, require you to be in front of the bird and usually below as the target is dropping and moving. Example - we have an incomer that comes from basically right field - it is quartering straight in - you need to be shooting it at a 7:00 position to allow for it dropping and continuing to your left - otherwise, you'll be on the right of the target.

There are several styles of shooting for 5-stand and sporting - sustained lead, swing through, pull away, and move-mount-shoot. All have their place as no one style is going to work for every possible target presentation.

I find sustained lead to not work well for me, as I spend too much time tracking the bird and then my eyes and brain are constantly trying to calculate lead. Swing through is where you move your gun to the bird on its line, come from behind it and pull the trigger as you swing through. Pull away has you with your muzzle on the bird and then pulling the trigger as you begin accelerating away from the bird. Move-mount-shoot has you tracking the bird with your eyes -gun down- you have a predetermined hold point, insertion point and trigger/break point. When the bird nears the insertion point, you are mounting your gun and as the gun hits your cheek, you are pulling the trigger and continuing your swing.

HTH

Added:
He was talking about seeing the bead and using that as a measurement.
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If you are looking at the bead then you are not focusing on the bird - point the gun instinctively like you are doing, develop a sense of where it going to be, and put your shot there as it arrives.
 
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If you are looking at the bead then you are not focusing on the bird - point the gun instinctively like you are doing, develop a sense of where it going to be, and put your shot there as it arrives.
Click to expand...

Interesting, he kept saying specific feet. I wondered how he did it. Maybe he wasn’t really at all. Maybe he was just trying to give comparisons on lead. You’d have to have some kind of reference point after all.

There's an old adage - "When in doubt, try missing in front".
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That was the another thing he kept telling me. He did admit to inflating lead lengths to try and get people to shoot out front of the bird.

It turns out I prefer to shoot them on the rise. He said that had to do with hunting; see the bird – shoot the bird was how he put it. I had to work at patience on some shots.
 
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Videos were helpful for me when I was shooting alot of skeet. Actually, they are still helpful, but I don't shoot as much any more.

If the video is done well, you actually see the lead and can get your own visual picture.
 
Not every 5-stand or sporting target will be on the rise, however - some of the most frustrating ones can be when you are above the target and it is thrown on a downward path, like down a small coulle or draw - your eyes tell you one thing and the target is dong another - that's an excellent example of the target setter doing his job

We have a pair on our 5-stand where I was this morning - a quartering out L2R and a screamer L2R from almost the same spot - your eyes pick up the crosser first - but if you go fir - a big goose egg is your score - it is intended to be shot the other way - it makes it fun and challenging and I will never shoot trap or skeet if there is a 5-stand, sporting, or FITASC layout available

Watch your target line, determine your hold point, insertion point and break point - for both targets - and set your feet accordingly - you want your off foot (non trigger hand) to point to your break point of the target
 
I've been shooting them as called singles while I get used to the new types of shots. My buddy and I were going to try them as report pairs this weekend and eventually true pairs.

We're always the only two on the 5 stand course so the RO lets us shoot them however we want.
 
That is excellent and I'm glad to see another course help new folks by allowing you to do that - the other thing you might want to do, given your fact as the only folks - if there is a particular target giving you trouble, stay with it and have them throw it several times (in lieu of others to keep the count correct) until you get it

We shoot in front of our 5-stand now - we set up 5 hula hoops like a FITASC of sorts and one shooter at a time - but it allows us the ability when appropriate, to move closer to the machine to figure out a problem and then move back a few yards and shoot, then back some more, etc., until we are hitting them from the station - really helps on those targets that give you fits...(which for me is the springing teal right now)....:D
 
the other thing you might want to do, given your fact as the only folks - if there is a particular target giving you trouble, stay with it and have them throw it several times (in lieu of others to keep the count correct) until you get it
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I do that too. I have trouble with rabbits and we had one another that was 60mph climbing L2R, 60+ feat away at it's start, then curved away and down sharply once it reached the peak. I'm not sure I ever hit that one.

They haven't let us outside of the stations yet but they talk about doing so.

I usually shoot a box or two on trouble shots per session but I enjoy shooting rounds for score more so I'll just shoot some games and see what happens. My buddy and I are pretty competitive with each other and about equally matched. That makes shooting for scores more enjoyable than just practicing a couple of shots. Bragging rights only but that carries a lot of weight.
 
They've changed it now. They change the shots about every 2-3 weeks.

Currently it's slower, supposedly at 45mph, and and does essentially the same thing but curves in and down now. I can hit this version, usually while it's still climbing just before it peaks.

My buddy can't seem to get on it until it's starting to fall and he's having a heck of a time with it. I personally find falling shots the worst and won't take them unless there's no other choice.
 
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